So it's been a day or so since we first heard that Death and Taxes was disbanding, and since then, DnT member Xi- has posted a somewhat lengthy explanation as to why. In the end, the biggest reason Xi- gave is pride. Many people, he says, just stopped thinking about the raid and the guild as a whole, and were more focused on their own advancement and their own needs, and became impatient when a boss did not fall easily. When it was time to progress, many of them, even officers, would disappear and stop supporting them.

He also does get in a few Risen style digs about how none of the BC content was half as good as Naxxramas up until Sunwell Plateau, but he did manage to sound a lot more classy than Risen did.

But the point about pride, about guild members who disappear for a while and expect to pick back up where they left off when they return, and about people who never show up for progress kills, or show up and complain if the boss doesn't fall after one or two tries, that rings true with me, as I am sure it rings true with a lot of current and former MMO raiders, whether from WoW or other games.

Mingka of Dath'Remar shares her story of genuinely needing an item that dropped on a Sunken Temple run, the Robes of Insight, only to have it snatched away by greed. The hunter in the group rolled need on the item as well, with the excuse that his alt/friend/guildmate/girlfriend needs it also. The bottom line question: who is allowed to roll on an item that drops while grouped? The debate continues, but people are very united in the answer that items should always go to players who were present for the drop and need the item as a direct upgrade. What happens if nobody directly needs the item is still a question.

I personally think that loot should be discussed if a clear upgrade situation is not present. Many people have alts, and would like to outfit those characters. But All of us have mains that require funding and gear/enchant/gem upgrades to progress further.

Here is, as she says, an interesting "moral quandary" from jumpingjessflash. She was making her way through Maraudon (one of my favorite instances) with a few guildies, and the BoE epic Icemail Jerkin dropped. At first, she thought it was an upgrade for her Hunter, so rolled Need and took it she asked for Need, but then eventually won it with Greed (see note below). But on second thought, she didn't like only +5 Agility-- turns out it wasn't the Jerkin for her.

So she's left with a choice: wear it anyway, or auction it and risk suffering the wrath of her guildies.

I've been in (almost*) the same position, but (especially with guildies), if I'm not sure whether I'll use something or not, I'll usually let everyone else in the group know that it's iffy for me-- usually they'll let me take it anyway, to keep as a sidegrade or a piece of a different set. If I want to be really nice, I'll sometimes let them reroll on it if I decide I don't want it, and then send it away to the winner. Another option is to sell it, and then split the gold.

Of course, you could also go the other way and send it to an unguilded alt to sell it anonymously. That way, you get the cash and no one is the wiser. Like I said, usually I don't care, but I'll admit that sometimes I'm a stickler-- if someone happens to roll Need on a BoE that I think is a questionable call, I have in the past asked them to put it on so I can see them wearing it via /inspect (I haven't ever done that to guildies, but in a PUG everything is fair game as far as I'm concerned).

Still, I don't have a problem with selling a piece picked up accidentally, if someone thought it was a good piece and then had second thoughts. If you did that and then put it on the AH, no one would accuse you of being a ninja-- would they?

*Update: As a few people have pointed out (including the livejournal poster), it seems like I did misunderstand her original post. She wasn't ninja-ing at all-- she asked for Need, but eventually won it rolling greed. Her concern was that someone may have passed because she asked for Need, not because she rolled Need and then decided she didn't need it. Because she rolled greed and won it, the piece was hers.

Anyway, I still think the issue of second guessing something that you roll Need on is an interesting one. That's not what the original post was talking about, but it's what I am talking about in this story, and I think it's worth a discussion.

Some of you may remember, as I do, a time when there was no Greed button, only a dice and pass options on looting. Either you wanted the item, or you didn't. Or, it was BoP loot, in which case, as I remember, everyone was supposed to pass, and then you all decided what to do-- though it was so long ago, I can't quite remember why that was...

At any rate, that time is over, and now we have the option to Need or Greed roll on loot that shows up, so it's pretty clear what to do when loot drops-- if you need it, roll Need, and compete with other Needers. If you just want, roll Greed or pass, and everybody's happy.

Except, as with everything, there are exceptions. Nesp from Lightning Blade brings up one of the most common-- he's a jewelcrafter, and he's wondering if he should roll Need or Greed on gems-- sometimes, he's the only one in the party that can cut them, but then again, anyone can use them after they're cut. Likewise, I think there's a little confusion about things like Fel Armaments and Arcane Tomes as well-- yes, people of the opposite faction from Aldor or Scryer shouldn't roll on rewards they don't need, but should the right factioned people all roll Need or Greed? Likewise, everyone needed things like Corrupter's Scourgestones-- should everyone in that case roll Need, or just roll Greed?

As Blizzard says (sensibly) in the thread, the best policy is to actually decide on a policy within the party before you have to-- nothing worse than losing an item to someone who can't use it, or taking an item accidentally that you don't really need. My plan is probably the default most players use: if you need it (as in, you can wear it or turn it in ASAP), roll need. If you don't (or you're going to sell it at the AH or DE or vendor it away), roll greed, and live with the consequences (there's always more loot to gain). But whatever works for you is what works best.