mick is totally right. my former guild that had raided to naxx in vanilla wow lost over 10 quality raiders due to failing to handle drama over who got into kara, which group, etc. it was a big problem for us and the fallout from those people leaving probably hampered that guild's progression until it died.

How quickly some forget! Kara was pretty traumatizing for most raiding guilds. You had 40 man guilds with 3 or 4 tanks, tops; and usually 7-8 healers. Suddenly you needed 4 groups of 10 people, and each group had to have 2 tanks and 3 healers. Guilds were short the tanks and heals to run that many Kara groups, so a lot of DPS players got completely shafted. Drama, guild quits, game quits, angst, tears, my guild had it all and so did everyone else's I knew. And some players (three in my guild alone) rolled tanks or healers and abandoned their beloved mains just to be able to raid and help the guild progress; interestingly, they were all eventually burnout cases who canceled their accounts.

Most seem to have forgotten how very much Kara got nerfed last year. :)

How quickly some forget! Kara was pretty traumatizing for most raiding guilds. You had 40 man guilds with 3 or 4 tanks, tops; and usually 7-8 healers. Suddenly you needed 4 groups of 10 people, and each group had to have 2 tanks and 3 healers. Guilds were short the tanks and heals to run that many Kara groups, so a lot of DPS players got completely shafted. Drama, guild quits, game quits, angst, tears, my guild had it all and so did everyone else's I knew. And some players (three in my guild alone) rolled tanks or healers and abandoned their beloved mains just to be able to raid and help the guild progress; interestingly, they were all eventually burnout cases who canceled their accounts.

Most seem to have forgotten how very much Kara got nerfed last year. :)

How quickly some forget! Kara was pretty traumatizing for most raiding guilds. You had 40 man guilds with 3 or 4 tanks, tops; and usually 7-8 healers. Suddenly you needed 4 groups of 10 people, and each group had to have 2 tanks and 3 healers. Guilds were short the tanks and heals to run that many Kara groups, so a lot of DPS players got completely shafted. Drama, guild quits, game quits, angst, tears, my guild had it all and so did everyone else's I knew. And some players (three in my guild alone) rolled tanks or healers and abandoned their beloved mains just to be able to raid and help the guild progress; interestingly, they were all eventually burnout cases who canceled their accounts.

Most seem to have forgotten how very much Kara got nerfed last year. :)

What 15 man instances were you running?

Maybe he meant ubrs, but what he should have said was 20/40. UBRS was definitely a PUG instance.

Obviously none of you are remembering the rampant crying over how hard Kara was. How most guilds on a server couldn't down nightbane for their SSC attunement, because bears and tankadins couldn't stance dance and not everyone had fear ward. And how the ushers would one-shot anyone but tanks and you couldn't shackle them.

And how the attunement sucked because resto druids couldn't heal heroics, off-specs didn't fit in 5-man groups, and rogues didn't have improved sap. And of couse, tanks were squishy as shit in their leveling blues and heroic mobs actually hit hard before they were nerfed.

Guilds broke apart because Kara was too hard and it was too much work getting 35-40 people through the nightbane quest line and attuned for SSC.

Powerleveling FTW :)

Kara was a guild killer - killed the first guild I was in on staghelm and there was a ton of drama in the guild I joined after that.

Don't forget the instance itself has been nerfed considerably - the usher pulls for instance used to be non-cc'able - which meant you didn't just have to have one tank and an off-tank (who is lesser geared) they both had to be really well geared.

And if you were gearing up for the 25 mans (the next step in progression) you had to maintain 3-4 kara groups - which was a huge pain in the ass since one group was all the uber elite players and officers (who strangely had access to all the high end enchants/mats and craftable items all the time) and the rest of us.

I can even remember the world first kill of nightbane - yes it was a big deal. All priests getting fear-ward was really a direct result of this encounter.

Most pugs I've been on still have a lot of trouble with nightbane, shade, netherspite and prince - I definitely wouldn't call that pugable - unless its a pug made up of mostly guildies.

When Kara came out, it was a guild killer. You guys are too jaded now and forgetting how things were when it came out.

AH still applies here, so for ur WTB, I say:

100,000g!

...except that it's more like every 1 in 100 people are psychopathic, which I find interesting. :)

That doesn't mean a psychopath is necessarily violent, but they do tend to be self-centered, pathological liars, shallow, impulsive, and irresponsible. They don't respond to punishment at all, but very strongly to reward.

It could certainly explain at least *some* of the people we've all run into in-game.