After the 20th Supremus kill the game can get a tad boring. There's no doubt about it. Raiders know well that you have to spice things up to keep it fun. One way to do that is to have a lively bunch of people you raid with. With them things can get "interesting" at times. The fellow officers and I in my guild have decided to make things interesting by betting on the number of people that will die during Supremus.For some reason Supremus always manages to kill a few too many people. Not too many that we can't one-shot him, but enough that it makes you scratch your head. No one dies on Illidan, Council, etc... but Supremus? Run for the hills!
So to keep the fight interesting someone picks a number, say nine. That number is "the line." Myself and a couple others will take under the line, and a couple others will take over. If less then nine people die, each of us gets 20g. If more than nine die the other folks get 20g each.
Is betting against the raid like this a good thing?
From the standpoint of keeping the game and its mundane grinding fun and interesting, the answer is yes – it is a good thing. Without these and similar things to do during the farm content I have a feeling that I'd no longer be raiding as much as I do.
From the standpoint of leadership, I have to admit, it is a questionable activity. We want to (almost always) maintain a positive face to the membership and keep our misgivings private. It's important to keep a level head and an optimistic outlook. Betting that more than nine people are going to die probably isn't exactly putting our best foot forward.
However with that said, I think in the end it's a harmless joke amongst over worked officers. And since we're still getting Supremus down in one attempt, no harm is done in the long run. And it's not like we're intentionally letting our members die (except for that one warrior that I've bribed the healers not to heal...more on that tomorrow).
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Reader Comments (Page 1 of 2)
6-08-2008 @ 8:15PM
James said...
"Ethics of Raiding" serious business
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6-08-2008 @ 8:18PM
Gordon W said...
Wow, slow news day?
Seriously though, I don't see the harm in this although I'd probably risk 5 times as much and bribe people to die during the raid.
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6-08-2008 @ 8:34PM
Starbeast said...
Please, do me a favor. For one month, avoid these words.
"Wow, slow news day?"
I'm tired of hearing it. I kinda liked this article, and I have several of the others I hear this on. Yes, there's one blogger I don't like. I don't remember who it is, because I've intentionally forgotten. However, if I don't agree with them, I just vote their followup comments down. Please try to find nice things to say.
6-08-2008 @ 9:55PM
dart said...
It's always a slow news day when Adam tries to increase his post count.
6-08-2008 @ 8:22PM
SBKT said...
That gives me an idea
In the raids I'll eventually be doing, I'm going to get precise. My plan is to pick a person, a lower level one most of the time if it's Pre-BC (I mean, c'mon, the stuff is older, we won't need pure 70 firepower), and set a durability line. We could make pots on what their durability will be by the end. Start small or something, I guess.
It'd be kind of fun.
"What's your durability at right now?" "87%" "Crap, I bet on 72%" *maniacal laughter from another raid member*
Since it'll be a while I'll have time to refine my edition of yours.
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6-08-2008 @ 8:25PM
The Chi said...
Why do you think Pete Rose was banned from baseball? Betting on something that you have control over can lead to extremely poor decisions, especially for healers that can choose not to heal as well as they could. Plus, if you're bored of raiding do something else... Or, omg...take someone else who wouldn't normally get to go to get some gear! Imagine doing something nice for others..
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6-09-2008 @ 1:18PM
makishima said...
While your point is valid, its also mute. Why would a healer decide to intentionally not heal well so that they can win a lousy 20g? Cause they cant make that much in 10 minutes doing dailies? And beside that if they decided not to heal as well people would notice or check something like WWS and see that they were below average that fight and probably have words with said healer. The whole point is to have fun with it, not try to win.
6-09-2008 @ 1:20PM
makishima said...
The valid part of your argument I was referring too was telling them to do something else or take someone who may not normally get to come to that fight. I just realized that the first sentence of that last post might not make sense :P
6-08-2008 @ 8:32PM
Memzer said...
It's fine, just don't single anybody out. I remember (quite a while ago now, lol) when we were betting on which melee player would die during an enfeeble - unfortunately when you were right they tended to take it to heart. The same goes for Archimonde, don't bet on dying players there - people are usually stressed enough on that encounter :)
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6-08-2008 @ 8:40PM
Charlie said...
I think the problem is less in the actual betting and more in the fact that its only the officers. If the whole raid were to bet on it there wouldn't be a problem.
People can get easily offended, especially if they begin to feel if the officers are a clique.
I personally have no problem with it, as I would bet with my friends all the time. But I can see how it would offend people.
Also, to the above. This is a fine article. Breakfast topic does this kind of thing everyday. Blogs are meant to stimulate discussion, not just report the news.
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6-08-2008 @ 8:49PM
Telwar said...
We bet on how many Shadow Novas it'll take to kill two or three of our guildies.
6-08-2008 @ 9:07PM
uncaringbear said...
It seems a little bit mean to me, especially since you're betting on the performance of your fellow guildies. I would question the ethics of the people doing this, especially if it's exclusive to the officers.
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6-08-2008 @ 10:05PM
Phelanor said...
The priests and I in my guild turned raiding into a drinking game back in the day when we had MC on farm status. Each person in your group that died equalled a drink.
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6-08-2008 @ 10:21PM
Shionia said...
This way of doing it seems tacky. How about taking that same number, and
a) giving everyone in the raid a 5 gold bonus for every non-death below the magic number (i.e., 3 less deaths than expected = 15 gold to each participant)
b) requiring a 5 gold deposit to the guild bank from each person for each death above the magic number?
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6-09-2008 @ 9:28AM
Carl Q. said...
I kinda like your "performance bonus" idea. But...
Im an hardcore raider (5 nites a week, we are in sunwell), and i think this game is pretty close to a job already.
Dont get me wrong, i have fun. Otherwise i wouldnt be playing anymore.
Adding performance bonuses would make it feel even more like a job.
On the other hand... if the guild gave me medcare and 401k...
hehe
6-09-2008 @ 9:29AM
Inscrutibob said...
/agree, with modifications.
Make it a goal for the group to beat, rather than a zero-sum (I win = you lose) game.
I would drop the penalty for going over though. Instead, collect a token sum from each raid member before the raid.
8-07-2008 @ 3:48PM
silverpie said...
In our guild, which is somewhat less progressed, a common variant is an offer of 10g per member if we can beat the guild record for fastest kill on the Maiden of Virtue. Missed by two seconds last week...
6-08-2008 @ 10:49PM
Wakoo said...
#12
What on earth are you talking about?
PvE faggot? Link me your armoury so we can giggle at your season 1 welfare epics.
No matter how you look at it, PvE is what the game is based upon.
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6-09-2008 @ 9:29AM
Carl Q. said...
Don't feed the troll
6-08-2008 @ 11:21PM
Smurrf said...
Yes, it's a bad thing. Why? Because as soon as gold or any kind of bragging rights gets put on the line, there's a temptation immediately placed that says 'what can I do to make sure a couple more people die?' From self-inflicted death towards the end, to the healing officers 'forgetting' to heal one or two people, to the tank turning the boss towards the raid.
Bad things happen when you start betting on something you can control like this, that others can't.
And if news of this leaks to your guild, you can rest assured that there's a situation ripe for drama the first time something like what was named above happens. Because how do they know it's only happening on *that* boss? How do they know that the pally who's supposed to be putting salv on the melee isn't 'forgetting'? If someone dies multiple times during a run, and it's simply because they're not getting heals, is it because the healer really did have more important things to do, or because they're tonight's over-under target?
Bottom line, don't bet. Not on something like this. Unless, of course, you really don't give a crap what your raid will think of you, and you won't care when they walk away.
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