It's almost never worth running through the STV quests on a pvp server- the benefits of having close quests that can be soloed quickly is very quickly eroded by ganking. I skip it completely on every character.

Nobody picks a fair fight. If they did, Rogues would wait until I finished dispatching that demon, wait till I mana up then walk up to me unstealthed, face to face, bow to the judge, bow to me, take an fighting stance and wait for the judge to start the fight.

The last thing in the world any ganking camping griefing SOB wants is a fair fight.

Thats what Arena's are for.

People talk about wanting a "fair fight". What is that? The world PvP game is not balanced over one little fight. The game is balanced over the main overarching fight between the two factions. Both sides are free to have any class and any level and any number of characters. That is perfect fairness. Players can have their own (1v1, 4v8, 19v32, etc.) mini-fights within the context of the larger main fight, but fairness in the mini-fights is beyond the scope of the game in the world environment. The methods used in the mini-fights, such as ganking, are irrelevant to the greater context. The results are the same for both factions, taking into account all mini-fights that have occurred and will occur.

Throck,
In the end the game is a game though. One person sitting in their home playing a game. That one person will have an effect of another individual who is also just one person sitting at home playing a game. It isn't about Factions in a larger struggle. It is about individual people in a social environment, either treating each other decently or not.

I'm not decrying PVP. I'm not even saying to change the system. I'm just saying that what you do does have an effect on someone else. Some people are just bullies, and some people aren't. Thats the way of the world, both ours and the one in Warcraft.

I am me in RL and in Warcraft. I can't be a prick in Azeroth any easier than I can to people I work with. So, I choose to defend, not offend. Gank me once, fine. Gank me twice though, and your ass is grass. I'm here to have fun, but not at the expense of others trying to have fun.

Thats what separates the asshats from decent people, both in game and in real life.

There are no factions, there is no game... without the people behind the characters. People. Humans. Individuals. NOT characters.

/cheer Zali

+50 DKP for bringing your real personality to the game and treating it as the social environment, which it is.

+50 DKP for using on of my most favorite terms to recently make it's way into the American English vernacular... "asshat" :-D

I agree... it is a game, but at the same time, one must realize that there is a point at which by ganking/griefing others, you are affecting that person's fun. If the gankers feel how many I've dealt with in the past feel, that if the gankee doesn't like it that they can play a different game or on a different server... they must realize that it won't be long before there is no one left to gank/grief at all.

It's a very give and take society, and it must be in balance in order for everyone to continue enjoying their time there. As cool as "If it's red, it's dead" may sound, that is only a philosophy that can be followed for so long, before the red is all gone.

I'd actually vote for the revival of dishonorable kills in the form of losing honor for initiating battle against and killing any player character that is "gray" to your character. I'd say that 1 honor/ 10 reputation per level difference once the character becomes gray would be an adequate deduction. That would mean that if a level 70 character were to kill a level 30 character, they'd lose 40 honor(allowing total honor to go negative as well) and 400 rep for every capital city for their faction.

@Zali

There is a difference between ganking lowbies and a rogue/druid -- specifically, one who can gain Honor by killing you -- not challenging you to a duel though. The objective in World PvP is to win, is it not? Being able to approach from stealth and pick when to engage is a class advantage. This does not excuse lowbie-ganking AT ALL, but even if someone cannot stealth and just stumbles on you while you are fighting something, they are not automatically an asshat because they didn't wait for you to mana up and get back your cooldowns.

The clever combatant imposes his will on the enemy, but does not allow the enemy's will to be imposed on him.
- Sun Tzu

@Zali and Bunkai:
I understand your points of view on ganking, but I disagree somewhat on what people may find enjoyable in the game (and in RL). There are more than two types of people, and many people play certain meta-games in their minds as they play the game.

Habitual gankers may have a bully type personality, but the player who only occasionally ganks may be doing it "just to see what happens", and a large number of these players means a large number of gankings, but that does not necessarily indicate bullying behavior.

Some players may innocently be curious about squishiness or crit numbers. How else do you satisfy that curiosity? Or some players may enjoy testing limits before consequences (e.g., retaliatory strikes) kick in. These limit-testers are probably the ones who laugh as multiple responding 70s exact catastrophic retribution. Or some players may be so drawn into the game that they RP without realizing it ("Haha, that gnome was toast. For the Horde! What? I'm not an RP'er!").

From the victim's side, what is the real cost? Most people probably would say "time" which could've been spent on "progression". Some people play just to play around, though, or even chat with friends, and the advancement of their characters is merely a side effect, so being ganked is no big deal. Also, death has no permanent effects, and you can even participate in the game while dead. Some victims are also curious about squishiness and about how they might stack up against a skull. Those players might be ones who study their combat log to see how they could resist death better the next time.

Also, at the risk of pulling an extreme analogy, what makes one thankful to be alive if there are never any disasters? Do you feel better about the game or yourself when you have gotten through a period without having been one of the ganked? Some people like the thrill of being in peril from potential gankers because it gives them a huge sense of accomplishment at having beaten the odds.

In addition, the maker of the game encourages ganking and retribution and Wild West antics when they say that your complaint about an opposite faction player has a PvP solution. In fact, one can argue that the players who follow "if it's red, it's dead" are playing the game better than anyone else because that's the logical result of the game's world PvP mechanics combined with Blizzard's in-game policies. And reviving DKs would be antithetical to that PvP philosophy and also would (re-)introduce an exception to the rules when an MMO game is generally better off with as few exceptions as possible (unless you don't mind a large whinage factor in your playerbase).

The game is only about progression because that is the only way people are motivated to do anything. In the real world - if people have a variable compensation plan at work (commission/bonuses/etc), they will generally work specifically towards it. If they don't, they loaf.

I don't condone griefing or camping. Going specifically out of your way to ruin someone's day is not cool. The flip side, an "equal-leveled" battle IS cool - that's what World PvP is generally supposed to be. BUT - I do think "ganking" is alright too - if I'm running along in STV on my way somewhere, and spot some lowbie ally, 1/2 the time I will take him down. We probably all do. Once he's dead, keep moving. If I'm leveling an alt and get ganked in this way, no biggie either.

There is nothing wrong with that on a PvP server. It's like saying "This veteran samurai should not be allowed to kill the dude with no training and a shovel." Just don't actively try to ruin someones day.

Well when I'm ganked by a lvl 70 in STV I don't think logging my main is admitting defeat

Of course it is. His goal was to ruin your leveling experience. Logging your 70 means he wins.

Logging onto your 70 levels the playing field.