Ready Check is a twice-weekly column focusing on successful raiding for the serious raider. Hardcore or casual, ZA or Sunwell Plateau, everyone can get in on the action and gear up people in T6 who then leave for the next rung up the ladder.
Following on from our column about recruiting, in this Ready Check we're going to talk about applying and trialling with a raiding guild. Anyone looking to change guilds and start raiding different content, or guilds interested in different methods of recruiting and trialling players, read on for more on the subject.
Applying for a new guild can often seem very much like applying for a job, and the interview and trial process also have strong parallels to the real world. Not every raider out there is an experienced job-hunter, so we'll look at a few concepts from the world of work to smooth out your raiding experiences. If this all sounds like too much work for you, bear in mind there are other options out there -- there are more casual raid guilds and alliances who will give you a shot just after a quick chat, for example, so whatever your needs in the raiding world there should be something to fit. Finding it, however, isn't easy -- which brings us to our first point.
Finding the right guild
You might know your current guild isn't where you want to be, but how do you know what you want? More importantly, how do you find a guild that meets those criteria? You can approach this like a job hunt, identifying your must-haves and have-nots. For example, your list might look something like this:
- Guild currently in Sunwell, making steady progress
- Core raiding roster of about 30-35 people, not too big
- Raids four or five nights a week, not Sundays
- Uses voice chat and a DKP system
- Opportunities to take alts to Karazhan etc.
Notes for guild recruiters: If you're looking for new applicants, they won't come unless you call. Put out your recruitment ad and try to answer at least some prospective raiders' questions before they come to you -- saying what classes you're looking for, what level of gear you expect, what you're raiding and when you raid is usually a good start. Your guild website should ideally have any further information applicants might need, and ensure everyone in the guild is ready to answer questions or defer them to an officer.
First impressions count: making the application
Different guilds' application processes can vary quite widely. Ours involves an open application, where we just invite you to email in the app: we find this quite an interesting way of gauging applicants, as it lets people decide for themselves what they think we want to hear, in a nicely twisted mind game that's a great introduction to our guild. However, asking people to email can be offputting, and allowing alternate methods (like a PM on forums) opens up the process.
Many other guilds use application templates, where they ask you a series of questions about yourself. Often these start off with the expected information, like character name, armory link, experience, etc. However, some can be used to gauge applicants' reactions to certain situations, find out about their sense of humour or anything specific to your guild. Sometimes people submit templates obviously taken from other guild's applications as open apps, without even changing the guild name -- our advice on this is "don't".
Filling out a good guild application is much like filling out a good job application. Give them everything they need to know, don't get too waffly with random facts that have no relevance, and be honest. Remember, it's as much about whether you'll enjoy being in the guild as whether you will get a spot in the first place -- and we've had people exaggerate on applications with facts we knew couldn't be true, which got them an instant denial. Sometimes people will want to know why you're leaving your old guild; the answer to this question is especially important for two reasons. Firstly, you presumably want to make sure the issues that press you to move on don't crop up again in your new home. Secondly, your new guild won't want you to simply collect loot and move on.
Follow the guild's required application method, sit tight and wait. Don't annoy your future guild by pestering people about applications while they're raiding, but do get in touch if they don't seem to get back to you and you think your application is top-notch. Sometimes it's hard to give an immediate yes or no, so be patient if you don't hear back the moment you submit your application.
Receiving applications can be a fun job, and it's laced with a kind of black humour at the more unsuitable specimens that arrive in the inbox. However, it's pretty tough deciding from a few paragraphs if this is someone you need in your raid force. Depending on your immediate requirements (help, we can't raid Kalecgos because all our tanks quit) and suitability of the applicants (hello, T6 geared prot warrior!) you might want to simply grab someone immediately. For less immediate needs, you have time to weigh up different applications and pick the one that seems the best; this is never an exact science, but talking to applicants and getting feedback from your guild members helps.
Acceptance and Trial
So you got accepted to the guild - congratulations! Most guilds tend to give recruits a trial period before initiating them as full members. What this exactly means varies from guild to guild, but usually you'll not get the same loot priority as members, and might be expected to give up your raid spot to full members. You might also be put into tough situations quite quickly to assess your reactions and skill. If your experience is behind the guild's current progress, expect to learn a lot very quickly -- isn't this challenge partly why you joined a further-progressed guild?
While on trial try to be yourself -- recruits who suddenly change personality once they're 'accepted' can cause headaches. Also, don't be afraid to ask questions, although you might want to do this in moderation -- for example, ask someone doing your job where you should stand, or ask an officer if it's a DKP question. Not everything needs to be done in public. If you make a mistake, depending on how the guild treats it, face up to it and explain if possible. Nobody's perfect, especially doing things a new way in a new setting, and your new guild won't hold mistakes against you if they get some indication of how you'll handle mistakes in future.
This also depends on the guild, but usually towards the end of your trial you'll get discussed amongst the officers or recruitment team and approached with the offer to become a member. If you're uncomfortable, unhappy or regretting your choice before you get to this point, you don't have to stay in the guild -- usually, nobody will hold it against you if you leave during the trial period. Similarly, if the officers feel you're not a great acquisition, your performance or attendance are questionable and you've done nothing to appease them, or there are other issues around your eventual membership of the guild, you might fail your trial. This isn't the end of the world. Usually you'll get some feedback as to why, and if -- for example -- some RL commitment made your attendance too poor to pass, you could re-apply once that changes. But you chose a server that had other options, didn't you?
To officers trialling a recruit: try to ensure they have someone to go to. Often this might be the person who initially spoke to them and invited them to the guild -- this might also be someone who's very busy and doesn't have time for endless questions, so just make sure the recruit has someone to help them along. Also make sure they know what to do -- everyone might take certain strategies and guildwide convention for granted, but if your recruit's from a different background they might simply keel over in confusion when the boss is pulled and nobody's said a thing. If they're genuinely doing badly, try to help them along rather than launch expletives at them -- if they're truly, absolutely, awful then there might be no hope, but if they're just nervous the extra pressure won't help.
Some people can change quite drastically when they're no longer under scrutiny, and finding out that someone who looked perfect and seemed perfect is suddenly a monster can be quite a shock. Dealing with them can require some harsh words and even a gkick, although these situations are rare. More common is the raider who isn't 100% perfect, who makes the odd mistake but improves every time, who turns up to raids and fits into the guild -- these are your core raid force, value them and make new people welcome so they become them.
Best of luck with your new guild and new recruits!
Looking for more raiding strats? WoW Insider's Ready Check column takes you step-by-step through Brutallus, Kalecgos, getting your first Bear Mount and general musing on raiding from the edge! For even more guides, check out WoW Insider's Directory.
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Reader Comments (Page 1 of 2)
5-06-2008 @ 9:19PM
Rational said...
Don't you wish that more guilds could afford a rigorous application and trials process? Maybe then you could actually get into a good guild on the basis of actual skill or calm intelligence under fire instead of because you're friends with the GM's brother.
Sadly, guilds are tiny. They can't afford to have someone vet new recruits. So basically they're going to invite you to the guild because someone IN the guild is sponsoring you.
Want to get into a good guild? Do your homework and then make nice with the alt of an officer or something.
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5-06-2008 @ 10:12PM
Charlie Taylor said...
Every good guild on my server works with a thorough and lengthy application process. It's really the only way to weed out the idiots and ebayer's.
5-07-2008 @ 1:24AM
Nick S said...
rational, i feel your pain.
i did a trial run with a guild who was supposedly working on BT and MH... in Gruul's Lair. we wiped 3 times, then a piece of loot went to an officer alt instead of a non-officer main (not me, thankfully.) after a few minutes of listening to them argue, i quietly said "this isn't for me" and left.
sadly, that was the best experience i've really had with guild recruitment outside my current guild, and i got into this one exactly as you described - got to know an officer, got an invite.
the way my current guild does it is if you've got the gear, you've got an invite. we'll keep you for a month or so and see what you have to offer. if you're not showing up or underperforming, it's bye-bye. thankfully, though we're terrible at raiding, we have a great community that tends to keep people around once they get to know us.
5-06-2008 @ 11:25PM
L-Plate said...
Our guild uses all of the above methods plus a voice interview over Teamspeak/vent.
It is remarkable how much is revealed by actually talking to someone. I have had interviews that have swung a unlikely application into a winner and a shoe in to a no way.
So an application would be:
1) Read the guild Mission statement and Rules.
2) Register with the guilds website.
3) Complete a written application.
an if written app looks good,
4) Voice Interview
5) Trial Position.
Another top tip. Investigate applicants hidtory. The armory is a given but try site like warcraft realms. Great for checking for guild hoppers and loot grubbers ;)
If you want a quality environment in your guild the extra work is well worth it.
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5-07-2008 @ 12:15AM
drew said...
copy and paste more from my post/idea in mmowned.com noob
PS: doing a guild app is like women putting up make up and did a plastic surgery to make themselves look good. If you don't do it, good luck lol you will not get anywhere. (unless you're a raider material and leeched enough high end gear from your old guild which is a very low chance that you are)
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5-07-2008 @ 6:30PM
Jennie Lees said...
I'm sorry, Drew, but you don't own exclusive rights on the concept of applying to an endgame raid guild ;) I wrote this article because my guild is currently recruiting several classes at the moment, and the number of terrible applications I've seen lately made me realise that there really are people out there who don't understand how the majority of endgame guilds do things. Having both an officer and (previously, of course) applicant's point of view on things, I tried to cover both sides in the article, and give some terribly generic but still useful advice drawn from the world of job hunting. Perhaps there should be more articles like this, and like yours (link, please?) out there -- there's plenty of information on how to get a job in niche sectors, but how many people play WoW, and how much like job applications are these guild apps?
5-07-2008 @ 1:30AM
Rob said...
I think one good thing about the game is the ability to do what you want. Want to kill Illidan? Make it happen. No, you don't need to turn into a raid zombie. But you will need to find a guild that knows their stuff, wants to also kill Illaden, and raids at a mutually convenient time (this last part is key).
So, definately do your homework on the guild in question. I disagree its a who you know process. Sometimes that helps. But there are *so* many guilds out there that you can really get into any guild you want as long as you are competent and have gear.
Dont expect to get into a T6 guild in 70s greens, but do expect that you could get into a guild just starting T5 content, and who clears Kara easily once a week. Gear can be gotten relatively quickly, but skill is harder. Learning bosses is one thing, learning your class is a different issue which the guild probably can't help with too much. Oh, and def. log out in your raiding gear. Don't be bashful. You've got what you got. If you don't have the gear, it's obtainable. But going to a guild with the sole purpose of gearing up is very bad.
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5-07-2008 @ 5:02AM
Blorg said...
Further to 6) - do your homework. Read up on the bosses you're likely to meet, ask the guild about any differences they have to the standard tactics, and don't be the noob that blows up in the raid on Kaz'rogal because you couldn't be bothered reading the tactics for a farm boss.
It's not their job to lead you by the hand through farm content and give you free loots, it's your job to show your prospective guild you can be trusted to do your research.
Sure, there's a big difference between reading it on the page and doing it in the game, but if you don't read it on the page your guild officers will be able to tell.
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5-07-2008 @ 9:20AM
Teeks said...
Quite a few blanket statements in here.
When a new recruit post applications on our requitment forums, everything is scruitinized. Their application answers, their gear, their gems, their enchants, even their faction reputations. I don't know how many applications I have seen where people have claimed to have run MC countless of time on the toon they are applying on, only to find that their Hydraxian warlord rep is not even honored.
Sure if you are looking for easy epics this scruitinizing of you application may seem rediculous however, this scrutinizing is what ensures a solid guild with solid players and weeds out those that quite frankly dont know how to play their class.
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5-07-2008 @ 9:51AM
Jessica said...
My guild has recieved apps that have me shaking my head, people badmouthing other guilds, using rude language, it doesn't make for a great first impression.
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5-07-2008 @ 11:11AM
Crettin said...
Some tips:
Don't use text speech like "ur" "u".
Put together coherent sentences.
Take sometime and put some thought into your application, elaborate when you need too.
If you are applying to a serious raiding guild, you need to know that the guild (and its members) take raiding seriously and if you barely take the time to fill out your application, can the same be expected from you come raid time?
Example:
My former raiding guild as a general rule did not have social members except for alts. A sister in law of one of our tanks applied as a social member mainly to keep in touch with the tank and her sister (she was in Australia and they were in Texas). Her application was so impressive, it was obvious she took her time and she was voted in unanimously.
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5-07-2008 @ 1:30PM
Tychon said...
The way that my guild does it is, Fill out an application to get an idea of your knowledge of your class, and experience in raiding. Once that is looked over, you get a vent interview with some officers and the GM (officer of the spot you are filling healing/melee dps/caster dps/tank). Once that goes over well you get an invite to the guild as a Trial member where you will be evaluated for 30 days, during this time you will not be able to roll agianst members for loot (unless no one else needs it and/or it will be sharded).
You're application will be posted on a part of the forums for all members to post what they think of the application, as well as things that you have seen them do in raids, good or bad, and discuss how you think they are as a player. All the while you recieve DKP for time during raids. After the 30 day tiral period it is announced if they will be asked to leave (usually have to be a pretty big douche) Promoted to friends and family (not a primary raider, but a really cool person everyone likes and will see some raid time, but not all the time) or promoted to member (which is a spot in the raiding core)
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5-07-2008 @ 1:55PM
Pavid said...
You people are insane. Honestly you guys think way too highly of yourselves and you have a delusional grasp on how difficult pve really is. Expecting people to fill out guild applications and go through trial periods as if it was the most important test in their life is laughable. You're honestly cutting yourself off to lots of good players who refuse to prostate themselves to some 17-45 year old social rejects who think they're important in real life because they're 4 bosses into Sunwell. I seriously would love to find every single one of you and give you a little bit of a roughing up to put you back in your place. It's needed...
Honestly if someone has decent gear, knows how to play their class, doesn't cause wipes, comes on time, comes prepared with consumables and gives it their all then that's all you need. They shouldn't have to jump through hoops for you like they're trying to get into some fraternity. If they make an average guild application then so what? And expecting them to have some kind of backup plan for the sever if they don't get in the guild is rediculous as well. They paid $25 of THEIR own money to play with you guys and left all their friends behind. You should be grateful that they're willing to do all that to help you guys out and not act like they're some retard you can slap around. Treat people like that and you'll see lots of drama and a raid team that hates each other on a personal basis because you're douchebags. As soon as they get the gear they want they're gone.
The raid guild culture needs to change most of all before I ever raid consistently again. It's been dominated by reres like jennie lees for the last couple years. This is why I respect guilds like "pve is hard" who are just a bunch of pvp'ers who have fun showing how ez mode pve is. If I ever raid again that wil be the type of guild I'll do it with.
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5-07-2008 @ 2:11PM
drew said...
#12 cry more? pve is easy, heck getting into end game guild is easy. Then why so many players bitter about not having access to high end guild? Simply, cause you don't have the dedication to get the consumables, enchants, read boss strats etc. all the little efforts that you wanna skip and just do the boss fight. People like you make me lol. Ignore everyones' effort and just caring about yourself.
PS: Jennie stop being a nubcake and admit you stole the idea/post from my post in mmowned.com thnx
5-07-2008 @ 2:57PM
PeeWee said...
Sounds like someone just got rejected.
5-07-2008 @ 6:33PM
Jennie Lees said...
If they make an average guild application, then someone who made a better one gets the spot. How do you know they come prepared, know how to play their class, etc? That's the whole point of the application process.
Having a backup plan really isn't as crazy as it sounds. I've seen a couple of people personally who transferred to trial with a guild and it didn't work out, and then got stuck before they could transfer back. Remember, you're paying £15 of your own money, and if you end up somewhere you hate with nowhere else to go, you're the one out of pocket.
5-07-2008 @ 7:09PM
Kadaan said...
Not everyone who has good gear is a good player. You can't just look at someone's armory and say "oh, they have good gear, lets tag them."
No matter how focused on raiding your guild is, people still have personalities. Getting along with the guild members is also a big factor, and a big part of the trial period. I've rejected several trials for simply being rude/condescending/argumentative or the constant "well in my OLD guild we did it THIS way, I think your way sucks."
Someone willing to spend the time learing their class, going through all the theorycrafting, and obtaining the gear they need won't complain about spending 10-15 minutes writing up an application.
Also, I can't stress this enough, but please spell out your words, use proper punctuation, and refrain from appending "lol" to the end of all your sentences. I may be a bit harsh, but if I see 'u' instead of 'you' in an application I deny it outright. It's an application, not a text message to a buddy.
5-07-2008 @ 4:27PM
Tychon said...
@ Pavid
How I would love to live in your perfect world, if people didn't suck and cause wipes and pretty much everything you just said, there wouldn't be applications or interviews, or even trial periods.
24 other people are relying on you to perform. having steps in place to make sure you can mimimize the number of clowns that don't gem right, don't spec right, don't get the right enchants, is huge. Nothing like wasting a night of raiding on someone that hasn't a clue on the encounters the guild is going up against. No one likes wasting there time, the guild doesn't want to waste your time by not accepting, and we don't want you to waste our time.
It takes about 15 minutes to fill out an application. how is that too hard???
I think you need to get over yourself and realise that the only reason guilds have these in place is to weed out shotty players and not waste there time.
im willing to bet that guild you really respect "pve is hard" has an application.
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5-08-2008 @ 3:26AM
TheClaw said...
Nice concept, Pavid, but "has decent gear, knows how to play their class, doesn't cause wipes, comes on time, comes prepared with consumables and gives it their all" rules out probably 99% of the 10 million people who play this game. Hence the rigorous application processes.
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5-08-2008 @ 10:54AM
drew said...
http://www.mmowned.com/forums/wow-guides/112436-how-get-into-end-game-guild-ultimate-guide.html
dear jennie, l2p
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