"I'm absolutely positive that there are active raiding Discipline Priests out there."

Why are you so positive of this? I'll be honest, I've known of one, but this person was already dead last on healing output so the change wasn't a noticeable one (they continued dead last on healing output)--however the PS spec brought nothing to the raid and the spec has since been abandoned after the experiment was concluded. I know another amazing CoH heal priest who conducted a different kind of experiment and raided PS. He went from being top in healing to near dead last. Honestly, it's the priest PvP spec and gimps your raid just like raiding in PvP gear gimps your raid.

To the person noting the Disc priest on their alt roster--please note your use of the term "alt roster". There is a reason the Disc priest is there.

I have a priest and a resto shaman, and as much as I would love to be able to be PvP specced and still raid (like healing priests were mostly able to do preTBC) I have to wonder if someone did that, who is picking up their slack? With the loss of healing talents you gain efficiency, however it's like having a shadow priest with better longevity heal. Why not put a real healer in their place or bring more dps?

What anonymoose says needs to be balanced by the fact that healing meters are, as we all know, not as useful as one might at first think. I can easily go from top of the healing meters to bottom myself, and not by changing spec but by having a different assignment in a fight.

Also, the strengths of a DS priest do not end up on the healing meter (and this applies to some extent to other priests too). Power infusion doesn't, pain suppression doesn't, power word: shield doesn't and prayer of mending doesn't.

As it were, said priest is on the alt-roster because she lives in Australia and can't make half of our raid times.

Sorry, but your so wrong. SoR is great for stacking the spirit and that last 15 seconds after you die is really beneficial cause it lets other healers know to shift and take up your slack while you do your best to top your people off.

Agreed. Just one talent point for a 5% boost to my primary stat? Yes, please!

Agreed. Not only is the extra spirit really nice but that 15 second free healing can really make a difference. Of course this is rare but it does happed!

I advocate that all priests spend that single point in the Holy tree for Spirit of Redemption. Even if, by some lucky chance of fate or the kindness of some benevolent WoW-god, you never die, that 5% increase to Spirit is absolutely significant. Between Improved Divine Spirit and Spiritual Guidance, you're looking at an increase of 35% of your Spirit to Bonus Healing. But more importantly, that 5% increase to your Spirit means a helluvalot of mana regen. Between that bonus and the 10% Spirit bonus from being human, I'm sitting happily at almost 700 Spirit unbuffed. That's absolutely delicious. With my Earring of Soulful Meditation and full raid buffs, I'm hitting 1,500 mana regen OO5SR -- every two minutes.

THen again, I've a self-avowed Spirit junkie.

My problem with Power Word: Shield is the HPM ratio between it and a heal (usually rank 1 Greater Heal, if we're going to assume that the heal does as much health as the shield absorbs). My experience is that priests who spam Power Word: Shield a lot -- say any time anyone loses any bit of health -- tend to run out of mana very quickly. I've VERY minimal when it comes to that spell and actually advocate it more for PvP than PvE.

In those few times I've fallen in battle, Spirit of Redemption has been fantastic for my group. In battlegrounds, 15 secs is enough to pop a Prayer of Mending, a couple of Renews, Flash Heals and a second Prayer of Mending. So when I finally leave the battle, my heals are ongoing and gives me time to rez, rebuff on the go, mount and get back into the fray.

Raid wise; I've prevented wipes, and dropped nuke heals along with HoTs and Prayer of Mending.

I consider this all as FREE heals, and can shift the fight greatly.

Not to be rude--you can cry personal preference, but again your are gimping the holy build.

I don't mean to be rude, but I find the recommendations here for priests who want to be end game are not necessarily the best. Do not try to raid PvP specced--and passing up the little angel form is like saying "I want to be a less powerful healer and I want less regen." Why would you voluntarily do that out of a misguided sense of vanity?

Most guys I know who play priests don't have an issue with this talent. And especially in end game where more resto shamans and resto druids are being brought along for the ride, why would you recommend to priests who really want to learn this stuff that a raiding guild would allow them to raid with less than optimal spec as a matter of "personal preference"? Holy nova is about personal preference--angel wings are about a desirable build. Pain Supression is about personal preference--Imp Spirit is about a desirable raid build.

Ever notice how every time someone says "I don't mean to be rude" the thing following it is usually pretty rude?

I personally have begun interrupting people who begin their phrases "I don't mean to be rude" and interjecting my own "then stop talking now."

I both agree and disagree with the sentiment of your post.

Being a good priest is like being a good... Well, anything in this game. It's maybe 20% spec, 20% gear, and 60% knowing what you're doing. Of course gear and spec matters, you just aren't as effective in AH greens as you are in full T6, and a shadow priest just can't (and should never try to) heal like any of the builds above. And yes, gear and spec alone CAN keep you from being effective and successful in your raid. I fully admit all of the above, and recognize the brick wall under-geared members often present to a raid.

The point at which you lost me, the point at which you "didn't mean to be rude" and yet very much were - is when you berated someone for their choice not to take a talent which really is of debatable utility.

Every class, and each of their talent trees, has some talents which draw the ire of their respective communities - as well as many which receive mixed reviews at best. Any priest talent commonly nicknamed "Improved Death/Repair Bill" (see also "LOLwell" and "Circle of Useless") obviously has a reputation for being lackluster at best. Furthermore, simply because it may be important to your play style, does not make it vital to everyone who plays your class. Finally, nothing you do in life EVER earns you the right to treat others badly, berate them, dismiss their preferences and choices simply because your choices differ.

Admittedly, you have a better grasp on the English language than many obnoxious posters I've seen. This does not, however, give you any excuse to consider yourself superior to anyone else. Let others play their game in their style, let their effectiveness be a far more accurate metric than meters can ever provide, and most of all, never speak ill of others without a very just cause - especially those you don't even know.

*note: I am fully aware that "Circle of Useless" is an outdated reference and that CoH is now of much greater utility. It probably should not have been placed alongside "Improved Death" and "LOLwell" quite so casually. Much respect and love to those CoH priests, I know quite well many of my characters are alive today because of your talent choices.

As a fellow dwarf priest, I'll admit it's demasculating when I die. It's sad to go from being such a proud, stout dwarf and transform into a giant, floating angel lady.

That said, Spirit of Redemption isn't of debatable utility. 5% extra spirit makes it one of the best talents in our holy tree.

No one is stopping anyone from getting Spirit of Redemption. In fact, I specifically mentioned that it is a worthwhile talent to pick up.

I simply chose not to. Any guild that wants to get rid of an active, dedicated, and skilled priest because he passed on angel wings in favor of something more useless like inspiration probably made the right decision. Then again, my guild's quite the basketcase.

Still 5% of 500 spirit does sound tasty. If it weren't for the fact that all the other priests had it, I might've considered snapping it up as well. But I like standing out.

I'm a raiding dwarf priest, most of the way through SSC/TK and I'm gonna put my vote in that SoR is not an option. Sure, often being a big angel lady is totally useless - but sometimes it makes up the difference between downing a boss or wiping @ 1%...

That being said, that aspect of it is nothing compared to the 5% spirit boost for one point - no matter which way you slice it, skipping this is purposely nerfing yourself.