Aloud on the podcast last week, I wondered if the patch 2.4 changes to WSG had made a difference (I haven't been able to make it in there yet -- too busy writing about Hello Kitty Online, of course), and now maxomi is wondering the same thing: since the changes dropped, has WSG actually been fixed?Unfortunately, from what we're told, the answer is no. The changes, designed to cut off turtling and players who ran around with the flag without capturing it, first made the enemy flag carriers trackable after 45 seconds, and then gave a damage debuff to the flag carrier after ten minutes (which doubled at fifteen). But all the reports from players say that makes no difference -- people still turtle away, even with the tracking and debuff, and eventually both drop the flag and the whole thing resets.
So what's the solution? If you crib some notes from other capture the flag games, a match timer sounds like the best option, and indeed, that's what most people are suggesting. Blizzard would have to determine how long to tune it, but the idea would be that after a given amount of time, if there was no winner, the match would end in a draw, with both sides losing in terms of a reward. It doesn't seem like Blizzard can force players to fight, so the best option overall might be to just call it in a time limit, and keep the matches from going on for long amounts of time.
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Reader Comments (Page 1 of 3)
4-02-2008 @ 3:37PM
Silverlynx35 said...
Match timer. Team with the most caps wins. Seems reasonable.
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4-02-2008 @ 3:47PM
Vort said...
So what keep you from capping once and turtling the rest of the game?
I say call it a loss for both teams only difference is you get the honor from the caps you have just not the bonus honor from a win.
4-02-2008 @ 4:45PM
Pzychotix said...
Nothing.
And that's perfectly fine.
Name one sport where the end is defined by the players and not by time, and I'll give you a dozen where it's the opposite. Soccer, football, basketball, etc.
4-02-2008 @ 4:54PM
Malyfactian said...
I like it. Makes perfect sense.
4-02-2008 @ 5:15PM
Teraka said...
Tennis, Ping Pong, Pool, Darts, Raquet Ball, Volley Ball, Your Mom, etc.
4-02-2008 @ 5:46PM
DaleMox said...
"Your Mom"
Hahaha, thanks mate that was such a laugh. Oh and "pwned" @ Pzychotix. :)
4-02-2008 @ 3:44PM
native said...
/agree
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4-02-2008 @ 3:44PM
Fabled said...
I ran a several WSG last night. It isn't perfect but it is MUCH better than it used to be.
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4-02-2008 @ 4:36PM
Melenor said...
I've run many since 2.4, and quite honestly I detect no difference. It's always the same everyone-on-defense or turtle game that lasts 45 minutes or more, at the end of which we lose (of course) and I end up with 34 honor in HKs. I cannot stand the place and hope they add a timer at the very least. A 5-minute timer.
4-02-2008 @ 4:53PM
Green Armadillo said...
I also had a much less painful WSG experience than expected - I actually wound up with two more marks than the gear I was after required, so I was able to redeem them for 600 honor, making the evening even semi-profitable honor wise. I think part of that may be due to the change to matchmaking - the game won't match groups of more than 5 people against Pugs anymore, and Pug vs Pug matches are more likely to feature two teams that both want to get their marks and get out.
The issue with a time limit on the match (either reinforcements or an actual ticking timer), which I'd otherwise support, is how you're going to divide up the spoils in the event of a tie. Somehow, I doubt Blizzard is going to a match award more than four marks total. If you split the marks 2-2 for a tie, you'd actually be increasing the incentive for a double turtle, but declaring both sides losers would arguably be worse than the current situation.
4-02-2008 @ 3:44PM
Callandra said...
What about just adding a reinforcements number ala AV?
300 reinforcements. 1 cap = 100 reinforcements. 1 HK = 1 reinforcement
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4-02-2008 @ 3:48PM
Wolfkin said...
Seems very reasonable, but I wonder if Blizzard would re-use the same mechanic for two BGs. Right now they seem set on having the objective of each map be slightly different.
4-02-2008 @ 5:03PM
V Magius said...
Don't see why they wouldn't EotS is basically AB with fewer nodes and a flag.
If they set a timer, I'd say 30minutes. That's about max anyone wants to be there. Winner is whoever got closer to winning. Draw gets one token, both sides lost.
4-02-2008 @ 3:45PM
Wolfkin said...
I really haven't done much WSG in about a year. How do the returns for winning the game compare to the returns for straight player-kill honor now that the diminishing returns have been restricted? I know that in the old days, the only reason to play WSG at all was to jump in with a 10 man premade, roll 3-0 through about 80% of your matches, and pick up quick honor that way. And even then, the amount of honor earned for a win was relatively small (and rightfully so considering how little time we would spend to get the victory). I suspect that unless the reward for victory becomes bigger, turtling/HK farming will still remain popular.
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4-02-2008 @ 3:45PM
Hildar said...
Part of the problem is that the debuff timers do not reset after the flag is dropped. Once the initial debuff occurs at 10 min, all flag carriers are vulnerable. This makes defending the flag that much easier and turtles ensue. A fix is needed or no one will play that BG anymore unless they need the marks.
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4-02-2008 @ 3:56PM
Raaj said...
Pretty sure they already fixed that stuff.
http://www.wowinsider.com/2008/03/30/hotfix-roundup-for-sunday-march-30/
4-02-2008 @ 4:47PM
Pzychotix said...
@Hildar:
Read what you just wrote. Once flag carriers become vulnerable, it becomes EASIER to flag turtle? Nuh-uh.
4-02-2008 @ 6:50PM
Pip said...
No he's right - 2.4 did not reset after the flags were dropped but after 2.4.1 that's fixed - thank goodness. Played through a 2 hour game after 2.4 and thought "This patch is screwed up!!!".
You did have to "turtle" in the sense you had to rush the flag room and mass you way out because with the debuff, the FC could not run and could basically be one-shotted by any twink around. We had to drag that last flag back, dropping and picking up the flag about 7 times across the field...........
4-02-2008 @ 4:03PM
Steve_S said...
Simple. 20 minute time limit. Each team gets one mark per flag captured with a minimum of one mark regardless or score. More bonus honor if you win.
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4-02-2008 @ 4:17PM
Marcus said...
That was my idea too :)