Every Monday Scott Andrews contributes Officers' Quarters, a column about the ins and outs of guild leadership.Most guilds see members come and go from time to time. It's never a pleasant feeling to see someone leave, but in most cases you know why they're leaving. That gives you and the other officers the opportunity to fix the problems that led to their departure, so you don't lose anyone else for the same reason. By far the most frustrating gquits are the ones where people just disappear with no explanation. That's what the author of today's e-mail is facing.
Hello Scott,
(Insert Random Pleasantries Here)
I have a question for your column, which I read regularly.
I'm an officer in a progressing casual guild. Over time some of our key faces have changed as real life, drama, and other events weathered the shape and nature of the guild. Up until now players either gave clear reasons for leaving, or had been so apathetic and uninvolved that none were needed.
Recently we discovered two of our original raiders, highly esteemed members, had vanished from our roster. We checked the guild log and found no trace of them quitting or being booted. Months ago they had drastically reduced their playtime (less than a couple hours a week, if that) due to real life concerns. Worried that maybe their accounts had been hacked, we attempted to track them down.
After a little sleuthing, we found them on a different server and in a new raiding guild.
This came as something of a shock. We were friends, so we thought, and had been for nearly a year. There was no indication of complaint, and we're rational people who understand if the guild isn't meeting someone's needs. To be blindsided by this has left us with many unanswered questions.
So my question is, what should we do next? They didn't take anything with them but our respect, but we want to know why.
--BrokenTrust
It's sort of like getting dumped, isn't it? You thought everything was fine one day, and the next day, without any explanation at all, he or she isn't returning your calls. Nobody likes being treated that way. And the fact of the matter is, there isn't a whole lot you can actually do about it.
You could send them a private message through your guild's Web site, if you have that functionality. You could roll a toon on their server and attempt to contact them in-game. However, if they really wanted to discuss the reasons for their actions, they would have done so already. They know exactly how to get in touch with you, and they haven't.
In my experience, most people do this because they aren't getting what they need from their current guild, whether it's faster progression, more PvP, or something else. These vanished members probably assumed that in order to get what they want from your guild, the guild would have to change dramatically, and that's usually not in the cards. Even if those wholesale changes could be accomplished, they often take a long time to bear fruit.
So your members started shopping around for a new guild that could better suit their in-game goals. And they found one. Now they're gone. If you really want to find out why they left, figure out what that guild is doing that your guild isn't. Check out their Web site or look up their officers' gear/reputations/arena ratings in the armory.
Why didn't they speak to you first? They may have felt terrible about it and couldn't face you. They may have been so disgruntled and unhappy that they didn't think it was worth going through the drama. Whatever their reason, they're gone. And you need to let it go.
But that doesn't mean doing nothing. Your job now is to improve communication. Before anyone else pulls the same stunt, you need to establish a dialog with your membership. Find out where the guild is letting people down and where the guild is succeeding. Use that information to make changes that increase the likelihood of members staying put. The next time people leave, you'll have a better idea why, even if they don't tell you directly.
/salute
Send Scott your guild-related questions, conundrums, ideas, and suggestions at scott.andrews@weblogsinc.com. You may find your question the subject of next week's Officers' Quarters!
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Reader Comments (Page 1 of 2)
3-31-2008 @ 11:13AM
Milktub said...
Sometimes people just like to move along and be left alone. Sounds like the case here. If I can put myself in their shoes, I'd say they had been scouting out new servers for a while (that's why their playtime seemed to drop) for a transfer.
Then they found a server with a guild more in tune with their desires (probably less casual, more raiding) and transferred off. Don't feel bad. You'd either have had to adapt your guild to fit them by raiding more and risk losing your casual base, or had them sit around grumbling and they would've left anyway.
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3-31-2008 @ 11:22AM
vildand said...
In my experience most paid transfers happen because of RL friends. Maybe they started college and met a few people playing another server? Etc.
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3-31-2008 @ 11:28AM
Blackhorn said...
I bailed on a guild. Completely. We were happily running successful Kara runs, and I was being groomed to start up a second (or 3rd) group as MT. I agreed to it. I had ample time in the evenings.
Then things started to get strange. The GL/GM started telling me that my wife and I needed to log on earlier because everyone else wanted to start at 7. Need I remind you that this was "my" group. Part of the reason I agreed to it was because I knew I couldn't reliably start before 8 and he knew that.
Upon explaining for the fourth time why I couldn't start earlier (I have young children, and my wife and I put them to bed.. it's a routine all parents are familiar with), he starts asking me why I don't just let my wife do all that stuff while I log in and play. Does anyone else see a problem with this guy asking me to shed my parental responsibilities AND ditch my level 70 Priest wife in the process?
Then he starts directing everyone in the guild to start sending me in-game mail if they were interested in being on my Kara team. No big deal.. didn't have an issue with that really, but it was one more thing on my growing list of crushing weight.
So I logged out one evening, and didn't log back on. For months. I just didn't need to deal with WoW like it was a job. It's not a job, and when the GL wants to take the enjoyment away and work people like they're being paid for it, those people will start to vanish.
I play again now, same as I used to. 7:30-2:30 every evening. Different realm. Different character. I did log on to my old realm and talk to the old guild leader. He was understanding. More than he would have been if I tried to explain it to him at the time.
I guess the point is.. everyone has reasons for doing what they do. No matter how friendly and casual guild chat is, there's always something going on in the background. Never take it personally unless the parties involved make it personal.
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3-31-2008 @ 11:41AM
Amyr said...
My former guild disbanded just like that, people logged off one day and never returned.
Some of them contacted us after some time, just to tell us why they left. Most of them stopped due to RL issues: family, boyfriend/girlfriend, college...
To leave a guild where you have friends is a really hard decision. Can't put myself in their shoes, but maybe they weren't liking the guild for a long time....
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3-31-2008 @ 11:49AM
RichM said...
One of my old friends who I used to play Ghost Recon with logged out of his full T2 mage in front of BWL in 2006.
He never logged in again, his char remains there, forever...
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3-31-2008 @ 11:58AM
Silidar said...
I just did a Ninja /gquit the last week. I figured it was just easier than to deal with nagging and drama first-hand.
I was the raid leader in my guild, but people not logging on caused me to become quite intolerant of people and I would only end up logging on for raids after a while. Then after so many times of calling off raids because of lack of people I started calling out of raids myself because I didn't want to deal with it.
After talking to my friend in a successful T5 farming guild on a different server that needed a mage. I decided it's just time to leave. Gathered up all my stuff on bank alts on my character and transferred.
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3-31-2008 @ 12:06PM
Alderkin said...
This can sometimes happen when the leaders/majority of a guild reacts harshly to criticism from within. If you play the "ZOMG ur making guild drama" card against one person who openly states their issues with the direction of the guild, can you really blame others who feel the same way when they silently \gquit?
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3-31-2008 @ 12:09PM
alt255 said...
Its can be easier to change servers than it is to /gquit. You have friends in the guild and you dont want to hurt their feelings. I changed servers to be with more players that played at the same times I like to. My old server, I would log on and nobody wanted to run anything because everybody was tired and getting ready to log off. On my new server, it is easy to find groups and people seem to stay up later.
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3-31-2008 @ 12:17PM
fleedawg said...
As a co-guildmaster in a small, casual guild, this type of behavior is very frustrating. We pride ourselves on being friends, and for the most active members, we certainly are friends. One day, one of the top 3 players (in both time played and level) left the guild out of the blue. Didn't notify anyone. And the day before he was telling people how good the guild was. Now, I understand his reasons for leaving (progression, meaning he wants the phat loot), but ninja leaving the way he did was so dickish. And he didn't understand why myself and the other GM took it seriously. It's because, HELLO, you're our friend. The other GM talked to him on Skype each and every day and they ALWAYS ran together. It just really hurt. And it's happening more often.
So please, don't be a jerk. Tell them why you're leaving, because if you don't, it just makes us think you were in it for freebies.
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3-31-2008 @ 2:10PM
Ahoni said...
If people are ninja quitting your guild, and it is happening more and more often, the problem is you. We have had our fair share of drama, but for the most part, when people leave our guild it is for a solid reason, and they usually take the time to discuss it with us first, and post a goodbye message on the website. Frequent ninja /gquits are a sign that something is not right in the guild.
3-31-2008 @ 2:28PM
Adarkara said...
The exact same thing has been happening to my small guild. Unfortunately, everyone who has left has been going to a larger progression guild. All of them. It really hurts, knowing I've cared about these people for so long, and spent so much energy trying to make it work. I am 2nd in command behind the guild leader, who is my fiancee. We're both at the point where we don't even want to bother anymore. The guild dynamic is completely different. I'm angry a lot of the time when I log on. I think my fiancee and I are going to cut our losses and take our raiding toons to a larger guild so we can actually enjoy the game again without the drama.
3-31-2008 @ 12:25PM
Netherscourge said...
Can we all remember something here?
THIS IS A VIDEO GAME.
Tack on the fact that you're dealing with anonymous people online and you should EXPECT that nobody is bound by any rules or regulations or loyalty.
People come - people go. It's just a video game people. Getting personally offended by other people leaving unannounced is just silly.
Move on. Recruit. Expect turnover. It's part of the game.
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3-31-2008 @ 12:29PM
Chris C. said...
Yes, it is just a game. "Move on. Recruit. Expect turnover. It's part of the game." Very well said.
3-31-2008 @ 12:54PM
Unmei said...
It's not just a matter of "It's a game" its a game where in some cases in order to get ahead you need to be a "Team player" if your going to just abandon your "team"(Guild) then you aren't much of a "team player"
So now guilds that have members do that take twice as long to get any new content started. And then more people up and leave because either their progression has slowed or their no longer able to progress.
So yeah it's just a game and everyone wants to see phat lewts and cool stuff....... but there are people playing it with feelings.
3-31-2008 @ 1:30PM
Dakira said...
Yeah its a video game... but those other characters you're playing with, you're guild mates, group members, random people who buy your stuff on the AH; they are real people!
If your on a sports team and just stop showing up one day to practice will people start to wonder where you are?
If you attend a weekly poker night with your mates and just figure one day you don't want to ever talk to them again and cut all ties, they might just be hurt, worried, curious about what happened?
I think the "its just a video game" only applies when there isn't some expectation of social interaction.
The vanishing members has happened in our guild, the random /gquit and as a rule anyone who leaves without giving reason or notice is given a clean break (we don't hunt them down to find out why). We continue to group with them like we would any random PUG but they don't get a re-invite to the guild if ever they wanted one without coming forward and explaining their /gquit and hopefully gaining an understanding of the "treat people as you would like to be treated" philosophy.
3-31-2008 @ 12:28PM
Bloodwind said...
What naiveté…
Let me see, real life forced them to not play as much for months then all of a sudden they disappear and end up on another server in another guild.
Um, if I were you I wouldn’t try to contact them because it’s probably not them anymore rather whoever bought their account.
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3-31-2008 @ 12:29PM
biglou said...
My guilds 70 uber healer logged off and transferred realms about a week ago. There was no indication that he was unhappy with the guild. Has 2 other alts in the guild though that he hasnt logged on to. Were thinking he got hacked but if he didnt, Texlax.....come home.....Malevolence misses you. Besides being an uber healer, he was a downright nice guy to talk to, even for a Texan =D. Sucks if he got hacked though.
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3-31-2008 @ 12:33PM
arcady0 said...
When I started my guild, Grannys Hoarded Cookies, back in April of 07, I had a policy where I would never delete you for being 'AFK'.
I was tired of the guilds that forced people to log on often and say high, and just wanted a casual social atmosphere.
Over time I had to reaccess that policy as members just started to fade out.
I myself took two months off from WoW after some serious frustration from level 40-58 on a troll shaman before 2.3...
When I came back, naturally, a lot of people had left, and about half the ranks hadn't logged into WoW in over 4 months.
I had to do some serious thinking. I almost typed in /gdisband. But after spending two weeks of never seeing more than one or two of my old members online, a couple of them popped in with similar tales - they'd taken breaks from the game and wanted to get going again.
Now we had a new purpose.
And I started by changing that old policy. I flushed the toilet on the bottom of the guild. Removing everyone who hadn't logged in for over 3 months took us from about 90 to 20 members, though I did it in stages. I first dropped the 5 monthers, then I started recruiting until I had half that number back, then the four monthers, and then the three monthers. So by the end of it all, we now have 100 members, but most of them are new faces.
So...
I've had to tackle this issue in a serious, major way.
I had to consider:
1. If I purge all these people, how will that impact recruiting if we suddenly look like a micro-sized guild.
2. If I do not purge all these people, isn't it dishonest to claim I have a guild of size X when really only x/4 are actual people who still have WoW accounts?
3. What if they come back? I myself took two months off, and my now most active officers are people who had done likewise. Yet at the same time many of them never came back - I've kept a list and I've checked for them on places like warcraftrealms, and they are just gone.
It really came down to judgment calls, and to waiting as long as I felt I could before removing them. I wanted to avoid problem 1 above, but I also wanted to not wait so long that I was stepping into problem 2. That's just a juggling act.
One major saving grace for us was frankly, that free transfers set our realm as a destination realm, and my guild had and still has a very good reputation for its 'guild culture' - which somehow stayed intact even after the losses. When I came back, my guild was almost dead, but the server, Quel'Dorai, was even deader... The transfers in saved both of us, and made it easier to make the calls over when to delist AFK members.
Without that influx of new people, it would have been a lot harder to make the decisions.
Its all been good in the end, now we're one of the guilds speeding through Kara - outpacing others who entered raiding around the same time as us, yet doing it with less time actually spent raiding - largely as a result of keeping the casual friendly mindset.
And if some of those people did return to WoW someday, I'd reguild them in a second.
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3-31-2008 @ 12:42PM
Tenchan said...
If they were real friends, they would have at least left a message along the lines of "Sorry, we felt we had to leave, and we'd rather not discuss it.".
That they didn't shows a sad truth ... the belief that people, and in conclusion relationships with them, are less valuable when you aren't face to face with them has not yet died out. Not much you can do about it but do it better yourself, I'm afraid.
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3-31-2008 @ 12:47PM
arcady0 said...
Ok so I guess I looked at "when members vanish" and saw that as 'what do you do when members vanish', whereas the bulk of the commentary seems to be about people /gquiting, making my reply above a little off topic. :)
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