I would rather spend 5 minutes losing then 30-45 winning. When you add in the fact that org AVs will net you about 500 honor every 10-15 minutes. Throw on top the extra hour or two it takes to queue. This situation is dumb. I don't need to stroke my epeen. There is no such thing as a challenge in this game anymore. Just how much time you are willing to spend to get what you want. You can't do it fast or you can do it slow. PvP is in a slow death.
Welcome to the World of Boredcraft.
To bad it is the only game out there right now.

@Devant: If you would "rather spend 5 minutes losing then 30-45 winning" then you are doing it to get honor and better gear. PvP guilds arena and already have great gear so they don't need honor. They're doing it to win and have competition. It would behoove me to believe this would be a welcome change to make more challenges rather than just a quick romp over under-geared/non-communicative groups.

Now for you who just happen to get into the battle with pre-mades against each other, oh well. Just take the 15 minute debuff, do a quick daily, and then head back.

People get so worked up over this stuff. It's a game!!!!! If you don't have fun playing 'World of Boredcraft' then stop freaking playing and QQ on some other game's boards!!!!!!!

I hate how at some point any criticism at all became qq.

"PvP guilds arena and already have great gear so they don't need honor."

How do you think they got to the point where they could be competive at arenas? I seriously doubt most people reach 1800+ rankings starting with greens and blues. It's close to impossible if you don't have any pvp gear to compete in season 3. I don't care how good you are. Resilience, AP, and + Spell damage out perform skill.

Assuming awesome performance of 1500 ranking in greens and blues you get ~300 points. Getting around 300-400 arena points a week would earn you an epic item about once every five and a half weeks, of season 2 gear. By the time you earn a full set guess what, it's now months into season 4. You're still 2 seasons behind.

The current state of pugs vs. pugs on MOST battlerelms is a joke. One side consistantly steam rolls the other. Unless you are on that winning side you are out of luck. The only way to be competive in situations like that is to organize a group prior to entering.

People play the game at level 70 to get new stuff. Bottom line, that is the only reason. Warcraft is based upon an effort = reward system. You work at it you level up, get better items, and get deeper into the lore. Gearing up is the main reason of joining a PVP guild.

Think how many PVP guilds you have on your server. How many do cross faction world pvp daily? Often? When was the last time a faction leader was downed on your server? Not recently I bet. There is no reward in it. A lot of work and it's PVP, but no one does it. It's fun, but no one does it. No one does it because there is no reward.

To get competive enough to earn that reward people organize. They always have. The problem is that what used to be a fun and efficient part of the game for alot of people was just broken. That makes people upset. It would make sense for the minority of people who used to play for compition to be happy, but they are not. Queue times are too long.

The only people who profit of this change are the LAZY ones. The people who just want their WELFARE EPICS. The same ones that AFK in the tunnel during AV. It takes at most 30 minutes to get together 10-15 people for a battleground, form a strategy, and get in. Once a few people start running them it gets even easier to get them formed or just jump into one that still needs a couple people. But it is just so much easier to do nothing. Or even better tell those who are upset about this change to stop with the qq. Blizzard has slowly been taking the effort = reward and turning it into Lazy = reward. Hence the growing complaint of Welfare Epics.

"Fair and challenging gameplay?" -Drysc

Seems Blizzard can only try to get one right. Remember one side always loses. It will never be fair. Right now you have both wrong. Right now if your faction loses in BGs it is imposible to get better. Impossible gameplay is a far cry from challenging.

05/25/2007
Oh damn. I thought Blizz had actually done something to promote fair play by making Premades fight other premades, but alas, it was not to be. IIRC, Blizz weakend the system because of all the QQ'ing over queue times...

Oh they can and do. Ever heard of selling ratings/spots/teams?

Yes and if they find that to be a problem they can start integrating the use of personal ratings more into that. But if you arent worth a higher team rating then you suffer cause youll get beat. If you have a high rating and you are on a lower team then you get to beat the system until its determined to be a problem.

"DrDiesel said...
Interesting thought but then no one would play WSG, AV would be flooded and even AB would probably take a hit."

And that would be bad why? Maybe it would actually motivate some real changes to the unpopular BGs.

Don't get me wrong, I find something to enjoy in all the BGs... AB/EotS - I pick a flag and defend it, WSG - I stay mid and work on keeping enemy flag carriers slowed/stopped, AV - the nice honor rewarded (and capturing towers). And with friends or, even better, a good raid group any BG can be a blast. But I think a little 'competition' between the BGs would push Blizzard to really make them all better.

/agree, we shouldn't have to play a BG we hate just to get tokens. Either let us exchange them and play the ones we do like twice as much, or just mak one honor token that comes from all of them.

Interesting thought but then no one would play WSG, AV would be flooded and even AB would probably take a hit.

Exactly, that is the point. Show blizzard that no one likes WSG and that no one is playing it. That's what needs to happen. We need new maps, not the same damn thing we've been playing with for 3 years now. Enough is enough. It can still be there for those qq'rs that are going to shed tears over wanting to play it. But everyone i've come in contact with hate wsg, can stand ab, hate eots and want change in our bg maps. Huge amounts of instances you have to choose from, but 4 bg's. Come on.

The fact that intense combat nets huge honor gains?

A lot of people don't realize that the removal of diminishing returns makes fighting the enemy as worthwhile as winning the game.

good point =)

I am one of those people that hadn't realized that, but that makes sense.