All the World's a Stage is a source for roleplaying ideas, commentary, and discussions. It is published every Sunday evening, (though it was delayed somewhat this time by technical difficulties).Mary Sue is extremely unpopular with roleplayers. She comes along pretending to be the only daughter of Illidan and Tyrande's one-night stand, secretly spirited away and raised by furlbogs until she underwent a mysterious transformation that turned her into a human, seduced Arthas away from Jaina, and learned from him more than you will ever know about how to be a Death (i.e. Retribution) Paladin.
In fact, Mary Sue isn't just one person -- she is a demon-spirit possessing all those characters in roleplaying and fan-fiction, both male and female, who rely on clichés, melodrama, and/or supposed intimate relationships with one or more characters in the original story to such a degree that they actually try to upstage those characters, their fellow roleplayers, and indeed, the entirety of the original lore. Other roleplayers often see this sort of thing and get frustrated out of their minds.
And yet there's something about Mary Sue: she keeps reappearing all over the place, from seductive blood elf hunters who claim to be Thrall's secret lover, to angst-ridden human warlocks who insist that they are the half-demon offspring of Kil'Jaeden. What is it that continually attracts people to these ideas, couched in phrases like "tragic past" and "missing one eye" and "emits a deep sorrow that makes you want to cry?"
The answer is darker, more disturbing, than you can possibly imagine.
An insidious demon
Many of us roleplayers hear the horrific "Call of Mary Sue" within our minds without even realizing it: "What is it that will set you apart from all the others?" she asks us in her sultry voice. "What makes your creative expression better than theirs?" Mary Sue thus infects and inflates one's ego until she is ready to hatch, then burrows her way into a person's brain, and once there, begins to spin complicated webs of melodrama, cliché, and super-sticky wish-fulfillment about the mind of its host. These webs are especially dangerous in dark and damp places of the mind which have only been exposed to bad television programming, cheesy Hollywood movies, and the surface level of classic fantasy fiction. They mix and match a few of these elements together in order to create the semblance of complete originality, when in reality they are mere imitation.
It is important to remember that even experienced roleplayers who have read lots of good stories and thought deeply about character development are susceptible to unwitting possession by Mary Sue. In fact her easiest victims are those who believe they are immune to her influence. Otherwise capable roleplayers can go for ages without realizing that their character lacks originality and plausibility, and can sometimes use their breadth of knowledge about lore or storytelling to help them find excuses to play a trite character. Mary Sue is a threat to anyone who wishes to be creative, especially within the context of fan-fiction and roleplaying.
The path to freedom
Indeed, to be truly Mary-Sue-free, a roleplayer must embrace a humbling reality: your character is not the center of the Warcraft universe. He or she is a footnote, a side-story, one of those people shouting in the background, the one whose face you can see as a kind of blurry fuzz for half a second in the upper left corner of the cinematic screen. Whatever stories your character has to offer to the world will neither be earth-shaking nor extraordinarily climactic, nor even necessarily interesting to anyone except you and your circle of roleplaying friends in the game.
Although your character is just a small participant in the overall Warcraft story, yet this is where your greatness lies. Your character is intertwined with all the other characters in your circle of roleplaying friends, each one of you mutually dependent upon the others. By exploring these connections between people, developing relationships, getting along and doing things together, you flesh out the world behind the big climactic story that Blizzard is trying to tell. As all the canon characters from Arthas to A'dal go about changing the world completely outside of your control, it is your character's being there, doing things, and reacting to it all that makes their story meaningful. If there were no regular Blood Knights, for instance, who would care what happens to M'uru and Liadrin in the upcoming Sunwell patch? If you roleplay a blood elf paladin character, this will affect you, and your response to it will be what makes it a real story for you.
Dancing on the brink
Now, having said all this about the danger of possession by Mary Sue as well as the proper insights for removing her from your mind, there are some exceptions to the rule when loose relationships can be made with characters in the Warcraft lore, especially where there are gaps in the lore which you can fill to your character's advantage.
I use PetEmote to make one of my hunter's pets talk, for instance: Squakkar is a "spoof" character created to make people laugh, but I still tried to take advantage of a hole in the lore to make him plausible. Outwardly he appears to be a red Outland wind-serpent, yet actually he is a third cousin (twice removed) to the blood god Hakkar. Very little is known about Hakkar and his ilk (except that he has "sons" who look very wind-serpenty) -- so I see a bit of creative room there to make something up. My pet is a blood god wannabe; he threatens to drink people's blood a lot, and flaps his wings about to try and look scary and impressive, but really his ego is about 5 sizes too big for his body. The Aldor caught him sneaking about Outland after the fall of his more powerful cousin at the hands of some intrepid adventurers. They handed him over to my hunter character with a special collar about his neck that grants her some control over him -- to make him attack, cower, and most of all to make him shut up when he gets annoying.
Now obviously some people who roleplay with me and Squakkar don't appreciate my sense of humor, and they may think I am possessed by Mary Sue. I don't think so: I never would have claimed my pet is Hakkar himself, since there's obviously no way a powerful blood god could be tamed by a mere hunter. But the Sons of Hakkar in Zul'Gurub can be tamed, so it stands to reason that maybe third cousins of Hakkar (twice removed) could be tamed too. But for anyone who still thinks it's a bit much, I can just choke Squakkar a bit and get him out of anyone's way. A proper character of any sort should have such an "emergency exit," so to speak, which gives you some plausible reason to step into the background and stop annoying people who don't appreciate your style; and this is doubly true if you think you can get away with veering close to the edge of the Mary Sue possession zone.
The most important thing is not so much who or what your character is, but how you intend to make use of your character in your interactions with other people. If your character is driven primarily by a desire for attention, then people are going to reject it as a Mary Sue, no matter how plausible it is. But if you sincerely just want to play your own part in creating a fun atmosphere, fully ready to step in and out of center stage as appropriate, then chances are people will help you improve a clichéd character so that it is more plausible and enjoyable for everyone.
[Thanks to Taylor for the topic suggestion! If anyone else has a suggestion for a topic, feel free to send me a note.]
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Reader Comments (Page 1 of 2)
3-10-2008 @ 1:35AM
Mykil said...
While I wholeheartedly agree with evils of Mary Sue, I disagree that the characters we play in WoW are "faces in a crowd". We are the ones who expose Onyxia's plot, and return to Stormwind with her head. We are the ones who venture into Ahn'Qiraj to stop the return of C'thun. We are even the ones who dig through poo for the sake of some..er..rare beans. We are the ones the legends are written about. Arthas, Illidian, Kael, they exist to support -our- story, not the other way around. You are the star of your own adventure.
Unfortunately I see a lot of roleplayers who forget that they are, in essence, telling their own story about their heroes. That means you and your friends. You are living your stories, making your name legend as you become exalted with various groups and assault the bastions of the Burning Crusade. Yeah, other people are doing so too, and sure you raid Karazhan every week, but those are not story elements any more than packing three sets of gear and several thousand gold on you should stop you from /dancing.
Mary Sues are over-the-top, sons of every major character, half-dragon, half-demon wannabes and are extremely annoying. But being the star of your own story and feeling the world of Warcraft revolves around you is not being a Mary Sue. That's going with how the story has been written. Be heroes, not window dressing.
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3-10-2008 @ 2:03AM
Crianas said...
I dunno. I don't mind anonymity. I don't wanna be Jaina Proudmoore, I want to be one of the faceless Kul Tiras footmen that made it through Hyjal. No fame, no glory, but a place in the world. Maybe that's just me.
My characters are never the big heroes. My warlock been to Stratholme, but he won't lay claim to slaying Baron Rivendare. My draenei serves the Aldor, he's exalted with them, but he's just a servant of the Light. The extent of my heroism is saving my guild leader from where he was held in the Undercity, and that suits me just fine.
Killing the Betrayer or hanging Nefarian's head from the arches doesn't mean squat to me compared to walking into a player-run tavern and having your reputation precede you because of what you've done in the roleplaying community. It might not affect the world at large, but it feels better to me.
3-10-2008 @ 5:33AM
jackslack said...
The beauty is that it can be both. You're free to downplay accomplishments or play them up to match your concept; my undead warrior is most proud of joining G.E.E.K., and talks endlessly about engineering related quests. And he's very anti-warlock, and will (quietly and only to those he trusts) talk at length about his work as an undercover operative for Thrall. But he's otherwise quite modest.
3-10-2008 @ 4:51AM
Mary said...
Um, this article reminds me of a book title as 'Mastering Mary Sue' that I stumbled across online last week. I do not know if they are the same Mary Sue:
http://dealstudio.com/searchdeals.php?deal_id=89434&ru=279
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3-10-2008 @ 8:12AM
Ravenswing said...
The Mary Sue described in this article is a very, very specialised case. Mary Sue is designed to be the centre of attention at all times, and claiming to be the second son of the King of Stormwind (an example I have met in game) meets that criterion nicely, but trashing the lore to make yourself important is not required to be a Mary Sue.
Cliche usually is. The classic is that you became a world class Paladin because your family was killed by orcs and then you were raised by a monastic order before being unleashed on the world. It's actually harder to spot this kind of Mary Sue in Warcraft because it is actually totally reasonable to have had your family killed by orcs, or the Scourge, or any of the other streams of disaster that have happened quite recently.
Online roleplaying has the problem that it is enormously free-form and people tend to abuse that. Either they power-emote, or they come up with elaborate backstories which bend the lore so far out of shape it's unrecognisable, and generally they act like children at playtime in kindergarten.
As for the older son of the Stormwind King (out of town when the King went missing, hence not available to be crowned), I told him that, yes, he could roleplay any way he liked, but so could I and I would rather he didn't roleplay like that with me. Haven't seen him since.
3-10-2008 @ 1:14PM
Crianas said...
I think that a cliched character isn't that big of a deal, so long as it's plausible. Warrior son of guards from Stromgarde? Great. Hate undead because the Scourge destroyed your family? Statistically speaking, there are going to be a lot of those people. And I think that roleplaying is a lot more fun when some people do play the 'establishment,' the average Joe that fits in when people make generalities like 'Night Elves hate orcs because of deforestation' or 'Tauren revere nature.'
Having a rather anonymous 'starting place' for your character gets a large portion of backstory out of the way, and makes sure that said backstory actually fits within the lore. It's always better to be a vengeful paladin from Stratholme, as cliched as that is (with apologies to the person I know that fits that billing) than to be a princess from a secret tribe of humans that lived in the Badlands or something. It also provides a nice contrast with all of the people that are so determined to be different.
The key is making sure that your character is unique in all that. There're going to be countless other refugees from Gnomeregan, but it's your personality and quirks that define you. Make it about how you were abroad making a business deal when things went under, not how you escaped Thermaplugg's personal clutches because of a magical talisman you inherited as a descendant of the ancient kings and queens of Gnomeregan.
3-10-2008 @ 5:44AM
Shalkis said...
One good example on how our characters could relate to the world is Cloud Strife's backstory from Final Fantasy VII. When Cloud first introduces himself, he claims to be an elite soldier. But he's not. He did not fight as an equal alongside Sephiroth at Nibelheim. He did not challenge him in a climatic confrontration at the Mako reactor. In reality, he was a regular soldier who did see all of this take place, but only from the sidelines. Our characters are not Sephiroth or even Zack. We're Cloud. A regular guy that gets mixed up into things greater than himself. The unsung hero.
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3-10-2008 @ 7:20AM
fealubryne said...
I've been a roleplayer for years, long before I ever came to WoW. I've toyed with the idea of roleplaying in MMOs, tried it a few times, and found that it's just not my style. While the game itself provides visible characters, environments, and other characters to interact with, everything's very static. When my character just stands there when I /hug, or I run WC for the fiftieth time and down Serpentis (again), or I overhear Thrall having a conversation with a brave adventurer (hey... didn't he say that to me, too?) I tend lose touch with the in-character aspect and it just becomes a game. I get tired of trying to justify all the oddities that come about and so, in the end, if I'm going to roleplay I'll go back to the ways I used to do it (which generally involves you, and the people you're playing with, going on imagination alone).
That said, old habits die hard. My characters in WoW are, in fact, just that -- characters. I don't refer to them as "toons" or "avatars" because to me they're characters. And as such I tend to come up with personalities, quirks, background, etc., in addition to just their names. I rarely, if ever, make these things obvious (I play a PvP server, love it, and have no intention of ever changing that) to anyone. Though, amusingly enough, a lot of the people I play with have admitted to thinking up little stories having to do with their characters as well. But even with the characterization, we all seem more than happy to have our characters be "the average adventurer" who may not be physically shifting worlds, but have their own stories to tell.
While it may not involve the fate of Azeroth directly, each character has a story to tell. Just because they're not slaying dragons doesn 't make their story bad -- only different. And that, in my opinion, is far more flavorful than the epic tales we often come across. After all, we rarely get to hear about the ones doing the small things that make a difference, but just because those things are small, are they any less important? Or interesting, for that matter?
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3-10-2008 @ 8:49AM
Anaughtybear said...
Cloud Strife gets my vote for most retarded name in a long list of nonsensical engrish anime names.
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3-10-2008 @ 9:30AM
Damon said...
I haven't had to deal with mary sues myself yet in WoW, but there are plenty of times when it's annoyed me in other media. I remember doing an online roleplaying session over a message board. There where about eight of us, and we where all online at the same time so it was pretty great... We'd have rapid-fire bouts of roleplaying and advance the plot in nice bite-sized chunks before going to work/school and coming back to do it again before calling it a night.
One day i woke up and two people pretending to be magus from chrono trigger and sephiroth from FF7 had infiltrated the topic and had a big messy DBZish cyber-fight. It was all rather annoying, especially since we could't lock them out of the topic or something.
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3-10-2008 @ 9:34AM
Tenchan said...
We all know who the biggest Mary Sue in the Warcraft universe is ... and he's canon too ;). (I still say Rhonin should be the raid boss of WotLK, not Arthas, but oh well.)
The article hints to a very important point: Mary Sue is not what you do, it's how you do it. I have a character who is bonded extraordinarily tightly to his demons, who is in reality a dragon and who's been tagging along with Kael'thas all the way as one of his soldiers and then decided to stick with Illidan.
His biggest accomplishment to him is fathering a daughter he loves and finding a little cottage for himself and his current partner far off where no one can harass him about the mistakes he made during his life. Priorities are one of the biggest defining features of a character.
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3-10-2008 @ 9:46AM
Ruby said...
I left the RP world when in the guild I was in a blood elf paladin joined in claiming he was one of the last remnants of the Order of the Silver Hand and that Uther himself had given him the task of remaking the Order. Man, that was so fucking annoying! Once we were having a reunion and one of the paladins started saying that he would kill him, since he was obviously (or at least how he stated it) a high elf and should be killed, since he was from the Alliance and all. I was trying to help him in his argument, but then the guild master stepped in and said that we should be loyal to all the guildies. I left the day after.
I used to roleplay a troll which I made with light blue skin and white hair, and along with my boyfriend we used to say that we were Winterax trolls (the ones from AV) that got lost at childhood and were raised by the Horde. Not too heroic, but I think it's enough. She was cannibal too, keeping her tribe tradition. :P
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3-10-2008 @ 9:59AM
Brian Karasek said...
Brilliant, brilliant, brilliant, thanks David for a great post. All of my favorite pet peeves, catalogued.
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3-10-2008 @ 12:08PM
Ravenswing said...
This wiki article has a rather good expose on the Mary Sue in all its glorious forms: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mary_Sue
Made me laugh when I first read it.
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3-10-2008 @ 12:31PM
Xiphus said...
I never enjoy seeing Mary Sues. I admitted that when I first started, my character was very Mary Sue-ish. Some guy from some family with awesome repute, having awesome family heirlooms and bloodline abilities and all that. Eventually, I stopped being Mary Sue after reading alot of fiction stories, read more newspapers and realizing just how boring it is to be an all powerful guy.
So, instead, when I started RPing in WoW, I made a background character instead. I made an undead rogue who is one of the many contract killers out there trying to make it big, and did manage to successfully acquire some really big contracts from the Horde military and has to, time and again, go into the bloodiest of battlefields to do their dirty work.
Pretty mundane and run-in-the-mill, but I still had fun. Mainly from interacting people and developing a reputation for being the guy who gets the job done.
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3-10-2008 @ 2:32PM
Tseran said...
In my old days of role-playing on IRC, we ran into lots of "Mary Sue"s as you call them, but we had a different term. They were called "lemans" They were the ones who thrived in melodrama and the attention it relished. Their characters were all tragic, they all were tied closely to something big, and they wanted the attention. If they didn't get attention, they would go "die" then show up under a new character in five minutes and be the relative of their dead character coming to berate us all for not paying attention to them and letting their cousin/sister/brother/etc. die. The best way to deal with those kind of people is politely tell them (in private) why their stories don't work, and try and help them come up with something plausible.
For my night elves, the closest they had to greatness was that they were alive when Azshara was around, one was an experiment for some almost unknown Highborne experiment, and the puppy of my hunter was stepped on by Archimonde when he was going for the World Tree. Does that make him important? Certainly not, but it gives my hunter a reason why he never will tame a canine.
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3-10-2008 @ 9:20PM
Khaeron said...
I'm with the people who enjoy the "on the sidelines" approach, where your character isn't really that important to the overall story. My current Blood Elf character served in the second and third wars, but not as a soldier; he was a behind-the-lines medic. (Think M*A*S*H) He rarely ever saw combat, and when he did, he ran for the. As the war progressed and more and more dead piled up, after Quel'Thalas bought the big one, and his race was essentially disowned by the very people he served dutifully, he went AWOL. You don't need to be a major character to have wonderful opportunities for development; I'd even go so far as to say it's easier and more entertaining to play around with characters that are "insignificant" because you can play around more in the story without having to worry about breaking lore.
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3-11-2008 @ 6:38AM
badb said...
mary sue is the american term. I have heard leman used more often. They often get dropped into the same bucket as powergamers or other poor roleplayers. Power emoting is more nails on chalkboard annoying. At least lemans can be written off as delusional.
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3-13-2008 @ 8:29AM
Cynra said...
Like others here, I view the Mary Sue as an attitude and not just the backstory. Mary Sues tend to grab the center stage and let the rest of the world fade behind them; experienced roleplayers are the ones that find ways to weave other individuals into their stories, flesh out their characters, and still have fun. They're willing to assume minor roles in other people's stories and recognize that it's just not feasible to be the only driving force in the universe.
I'm loathe to point out indvidual, but there is a gentleman I know of that may obliquely fit the Mary Sue stereotype. He's the bastard son of a High Lord of Lordaeron who disappeared/died some time in his youth. A consummate politician, skilled stategist, and possessor of unearthly beauty and poise, he's a paladin blood-bonded to a warlock, which resulted in him being put on trial for his crimes against the Church. He was rescued by members of his group, sent into the middle of the Tanaris desert, learned to be a shaman, and then given some sort of task by Alexstrasza the Life-Binder herself. He then returned to Stormwind triumphantly, declared war on the Undercity for its crimes against Lordaeron (while declaring Sylvanas a criminal and demanding her head), and has to deal with the fact that Sylvanas is after his blood-bonded warlock "brother" because he's a scion of the Cult of the Damned.
While a skilled roleplayer and capable of weaving wonderful engaging stories, this individual always is recognized as being a Mary Sue. His character is always some sort of tragic figure who is the driving force of large events and gets featured in stories that seem to underscore just how important he is in the universe. Every week or so his FlagRSP profile has a new title that ephasises which flavor he is that week: avatar of Alexstrasza; warden of the Naaru; High Lord of Stormwind; shaman; and the list goes on. Unfortunately, every attempt to point out that he may in fact be following the Mary Sue stereotype has been met with disbelief and even anger.
My girls tend to be minor participants in large events. Their role is important despite not being the catalyst for world events. They serve their roles - willingly or otherwise - in the background, going forth in the world, interacting with people, adding depth to others' stories, and drawing on those chance interactions to further flesh them out. I have no interest in being a star and this is reflected in most of my girls.
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3-17-2008 @ 1:32PM
T.S.C. said...
As with other people I know, when I run into Mary Sue I just treat her as the raving lunatic they are. (Usually try to work a little with them first...but when they don't see the absurdity of their way...)
They can claim all those things but they have to know... some people arn't going to believe it.
In real life I could believe and claim that I'm Jesus's second love child he had with Aphrodite, but if I go around saying that how many people would believe me, even if it is true. Most likely none. They'll start shrugging it off as though I'm just a crazy person. I can either switch to a bit more sane topic, and only talk about it to people who believe, or I can continue on till those people avoid me because I'm a nutter.
Same is true in game...people will adapt and get some RP goodness...or they'll continue, and loose out on some great RP partners. It's important to realize if you're a Mary Sue... if you -really- want to run that story to keep this fact in mind.
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