Many Protection Paladins voiced their disagreement with my recent post to Hybrid Theory, my weekly column on Hybrid classes. The complaints were many, and the flames burned bright. Thus, I'll clarify my stance a little more. Oh, and the title up there? It's a joke. Seriously.First off, let me say that my recent Hybrid Theory had a lot of sardonic, cynical little jokes. In all seriousness, I would not tell a Balance Druid that I raid with to "go be useful and Moonfire spam something." I don't think that you're viable Main Tanks for a progression oriented 25-man raid, but if you can have fun with something and your raid will actually let you do it, more power to you. That doesn't mean you should advertise yourself as a tank when applying to a raid group, but there you go.
As far as Protection Paladins go, I believe my stance is not wrong, but I overstated the extremity of the situation. No, Protection Paladins are not only brought along on raids to cheer in the background waving pompoms. I did not mean to say Protection Paladins absolutely cannot tank bosses like Lady Vashj or Kael'thas. My intent was to say that in most raids and situations, a Protection Warrior or Feral Druid(not for Kael, obviously) will be top priority.
Protection Paladins obviously can tank things, and I love to see them do it. A Protection Paladin tanking Illidan is awesome. Most raids, though, will look to the Warriors first. Not due to the inability to tank it, or even a gear hump. The lack of safety net on-demand survival tools is, in my opinion, the biggest issue with paladins as Main Tanks in a "post-2.3 world," as it was described to me yesterday afternoon.
Can Protection Paladins tank? Yes. Can Protection Paladins tank well? Yes, many people have proven this. Will they be looked to as the first choice in most situations? Unfortunately, no. That shouldn't stop you, though, and I never meant to imply that it should. I may have let my wry cynicism run away with me, and I apologize for letting it paint my words in a poorer light than I had planned. My stance remains that it probably will take some work for you to find a raid slot, but that doesn't mean you should not look. It also doesn't mean you'll be doing exclusively 'junk' jobs like trash packs. You have a hurdle to jump over, and you'll need to prove how capable you are to a raid.
As the folks over at Maintankadin pointed out, there are a few things I didn't take into consideration for my column yesterday that should be kept in mind. Thanks to the nature of Holy Shield(8 charges fully talented), a properly geared Protection Paladin, assuming there's no lag involved(whoop, got crushed between Holy Shield fading and going back up!), will most likely take fewer Crushing Blows. Against bosses that attack slowly, there isn't much of a difference between Warriors and Paladins, but bosses that attack very quickly? You'll really feel the difference.
Additionally, a Protection Paladin's health pool scales much higher than a Protection Warrior's does. Your on-demand abilities may be lacking, but at equal gear levels, you have a higher starting point, thanks to an extra 16% Stamina from talents.
There's other, smaller things, like fewer parries due to no special melee attacks to be parried, but I think all of that is better off being placed into my column from Saturday to be used as a proper reference for new raiding hybrids.
A friend of mine said something along the lines of, "In a competition between three people, getting the Bronze medal may be a prize, but it's still last place. Nobody likes to be in last place." To make the analogy needlessly complicated, it isn't a matter of first and last place. There's many categories in tanking. You get the Gold in some, you get the Bronze in others. Protection Paladins have one fewer Gold medal than the Warriors do. That doesn't make you a loser. It means you need to work a little harder to prove yourself.
I made some mistakes, but I'm totally willing to fix my inaccuracies if they're presented to me in a civil manner.
Oh, and before I go, I must warn everyone that applying to a raid as a Boomkin tank makes Baby Bornakk cry.

















Reader Comments (Page 1 of 5)
3-09-2008 @ 8:53AM
Kanuris said...
Protadin are actually the single best choice for a boss like Prince Malchezzar. Phase 2 has that nasty Parry and Thrash combo which can deal huge damage to a Warrior and possibly wipe the raid.
A Protadin doesn't even need to melee him in Phase 2 at all.
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3-09-2008 @ 8:57AM
Kalandrah said...
TBH, the only encounters I would favor a warrior tank over a paladin tank is on a) magic immune mobs, or b) mobs that silence.
Aside from that, there's no real difference. As for the safety net; Paladins with Ardent Defender take 30% less damage below 35% health. With a tank at 21k health, Ardent Defender starts at 7350. Most paladins can tell you how much damage that 30% has saved and how many times it's saved them from dying.
Also, once you are comfortable with new encounters, warriors will rarely use shield wall / last stand.
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3-09-2008 @ 12:17PM
Matthew Rossi said...
I often use Shield Wall and then Last Stand on enrages or soft enrages.
Tell you what: don't tell warriors how we tank, since paladins are so unwilling to hear any criticism of how you do. I know when I use my abilities, you don't.
3-09-2008 @ 1:36PM
Corala said...
If you are comfortable with an encounter, then you aren't in a progression raid and a moonkin could be tanking for all that it matters as far as tank comparison for a progression raid goes.
3-14-2008 @ 4:21AM
AlmtyBob said...
Cool Matt, that's absolutely awesome the way you so boldy (and troll-like) stick up for your class here and then go on to write the longest, most meandering QQ article about your class in the history of WoW. I believe I speak for the rest of the reasonably skilled tanking community when I say:
Up Yours, go roll a hunter or something.
3-09-2008 @ 9:09AM
Lanth said...
All tanking classes have different specialties. Not entirely sure of who's good at what, but it's generally accepted that Paladins are best at AoE aggro (Morogrim), and Warlocks are best at tanking bosses with magic abilities :)
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3-09-2008 @ 8:50PM
Kaething said...
Yeah. Different tank classes do better at different things, much like the healers. But people still want to feel like the best.
It's okay Alex, I still like you and will let your prot pally tank for me any day.
3-09-2008 @ 9:24AM
TALKADIN said...
lol Kalandrah , you are clueless , right ?
KaelThas Sunstrider in Tempest Keep mean something for you ? I bet you are still in Karazhan if you make such noobish afirmation.
"Also, once you are comfortable with new encounters, warriors will rarely use shield wall / last stand"
lol Good luck eating pyroblasts without those as "oh shit buttons " when something go wrong.
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3-09-2008 @ 9:51AM
Kalandrah said...
> KaelThas Sunstrider in Tempest Keep mean something for you ?
> Good luck eating pyroblasts without those as "oh shit buttons " when something go wrong.
And there you have it, "When something goes wrong". If nothing goes wrong (ie. because you know what you're doing), then what use do you have for Oh shit buttons?
Also, last I checked prot paladins can use paladins, which includes the Phaseshift Bulwark which should be used to absorb the pyroblast.
The thing with Kael'thas though, is that if you have a warrior and a paladin tank there, you will prefer the paladin to tank the phoenix adds. Not because the paladin isn't capable of tanking kael, but because he's just better at the adds than a warrior.
3-09-2008 @ 10:16AM
Lieris said...
If you need to take pyro blasts your DPS sucks. Even if you intend to take them there's bubble, nightmare seeds and fire protection potions.
I am a paladin and I've tanked Kael just fine ta :)
3-09-2008 @ 11:56AM
hellshire said...
I've run with a couple of Pally tanks (I believe we just lost one in my guild... damnit that guy was awesome). I've also run with a bunch of warrior and druid tanks.
Personally I prefer the Druid (mostly because we practically started raiding together so I know her best). But When it comes to 1v1 'This mob can and will insta gib you so ya...' I prefer letting a warrior go at it. The oh shit buttons like last stand and sheild wall can mean the difference between a wipe and a kill.
Then again, I know there are distinct advantages of bringing a prot pally (CC? Who needs CC!) I just think warriors have a few distinct advantages to them for a lot of encounters. But hey, if you prot pallies can out threat me and not make the healers cry as they frantically try and keep you up, you're alright in my book.
3-09-2008 @ 9:30AM
innajunglestylee said...
But what about Shaman tanks? I saw a YouTube of a guy who tanked Kara on his shaman! We're ZOMG viable too! Think outside the box, man!
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3-09-2008 @ 10:14AM
TonyMotorola said...
Wow.. know less about tanking? Is it possible. Do us all a favor, go back to Karazhan and leave talking about class viability in end-game raid encounters to the people that have actually done them.
Good job regurgitating the puke you found on bosskillers and WoW's Raid and Dungeon forums.
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3-09-2008 @ 10:15AM
TALKADIN said...
"The thing with Kael'thas though, is that if you have a warrior and a paladin tank there, you will prefer the paladin to tank the phoenix adds. Not because the paladin isn't capable of tanking kael, but because he's just better at the adds than a warrior."
This show again you have no clue. lol
Warrior tank on Phoenixs + bulwark + SHIELD REFLECT = birds dammage on him is almost a non issue.
And if you do your job never have more then 2 birds up.
"Also, last I checked prot paladins can use paladins, which includes the Phaseshift Bulwark which should be used to absorb the pyroblast. "
lol good luck on Kara. Bullwark on 1 pyroblasts. The problem is there are 3 consecutive :)
Shield bash intrerupt on third ? Good luck with pala tank at this. Shieldwall-last stand-pots/seed rotations to eat the 2nd ?
Good luck as I said in kara.
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3-09-2008 @ 10:22AM
Heilig said...
1) Bulwark
2) Bubble -> cancelaura
3) Lay on Hands
Keep feeling superior, I love out-tanking arrogant warriors.
3-09-2008 @ 10:40AM
Natoro said...
You really need to stop this "zomg warriors are only good tanks lol go to kara" crap. Our first Kael kill, warrior MT, prot pally on phoenixes. 2nd kill? Prot pally MT, druid on phoenixes. If your raid is, you know, good, you burn through the shock barrier and the 10 other members capable of interrupting in the raid can easily stop the other 2 pyroblasts w/o any "oh shit" moments.
3-09-2008 @ 10:52AM
Tridus said...
You do have Rogues, right? Why would a Warrior ever have to shield bash the pyroblasts?
This "Paladins make poor MTs" attitude is pervasive at WoW Insider for some reason. The guy who does Guildwatch had the same attitude until he got flooded with videos of Paladins tanking nearly every boss in the game.
3-09-2008 @ 11:39AM
Liel said...
Quit playing WOW and pay more attention at work I said NO SALT on my fries.
3-09-2008 @ 10:30AM
Kvark Tankadin said...
http://files.filefront.com/last+standavi/;9569421;/fileinfo.html
I AE tank karazan and maintank gruul,mag, lurker,leo,vashj,voidreaver, kazzak, doomwalker, and tank all hydross adds, all morogrim adds, all Al'ar adds, all solarian adds, Fathomlord hunter + pet.
guild consider me as guild maintank, and warriors/ferals are my equals. I'd like to see any other tank that can keep VR for the amount of time a paladin can.
imho, there is no better class to Maintank things, than a paladin with good gear.
if you don't, your loss :)
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3-10-2008 @ 11:10AM
superfrank said...
I don't see why a paladin tank has any advantage whatsoever at VR.