Lol? The point of raiding is to see content and to have fun doing the content, not to get gear. Stroke your e-peen in your corner and stop talking.

Also, PvP is just another aspect for people to have fun in. It doesn't diminish from the fun that you will ever have in PvE.

As much as I would like to see tanking made viable in pvp (since I am a tank that likes to pvp), I am not sure how this could be done. Much of tanking relies on the AI to attack the target with the highest threat; since humans can simply target what they wish most of the abilities of tanking are eliminated.

What does remain is high hit points and armor, but very little offensive power. This means that a tank won't be seen as a threat by players, and they won't be attacked until all the squishies - whom the tank desperately wants to save - are already dead.

Tanks don't need some kind of damage buff, but they do need a way to help their allies in pvp. That said, a damage buff (like adding a percentage of defence to attack power in pvp only) would make them scarier targets, and therefore put them higher in the humans own threat lists.

It's a good topic and definately worth discussing - but - given the role of the tank in WoW, is it really fair for a tank to be viable in pvp too?

This is not a troll.

On a personal level, I prefer PvP end-game and feel that the gear and rewards reaped from PvE are good for pvers. Raiding used to be the pinnacle of the MMORPG; you and many (massively, multiplayer) of your guildies worked to fulfill a story-driven goal (RPG). Now, you can simply ignore that aspect and just have WoW flavored for people who prefer to do something besides sit inside of an instance for 20 hours a week.

Honestly, get over it. Some people pvp, and some raid. It's sort selfish to act as if people who spend their time pvping aren't allowed to have good gear. Both aspects take work.

On one side somebody can afk through a battleground and get epics. Or they can do a karathon with some guild that's cleared it 100 times and get all trash nobody else wants. There are two sides to a coin.

Tanking in PvP... I for one liked the mechanic that EQ2 used for taunt in PvP. If you taunted a player his current target would clear requiring him to retarget. There was a cooldown so you couldnt just spam it, but it was enough of a disruption that I thought was clever and useful.

Yeah, I totally don't understand why fury warriors and ret paladins try to get into groups for instances. If you want to group, please pick a spec that contributes more to the group than dps.

As someone who has both a level 70 warrior and level 70 protection paladin, I believe I'm qualified to say that your statement is not true and reflects more your own personal greed rather than the feelings of the general tanking community. As a warrior and/or paladin, I LOVE to players of the same class be successful filling as many roles as possible.

Just because you're selfish and short-sighted doesn't mean all of us are.

Ret palys are useful in 25mans. Warriors...Lets be honest, the number of leveling prot warriors is very close to zero. Every time I group with a warrior I assume them to be non-prot. It's not an issue. Just don't expect them to tank. Expect the druid (me) or palidin to tank. Its not their fault, I wouldn't want to level in a spec than does half of max dps either.

With all the recent buffs to ret palys, they are a viable spec now I believe (i dont play one). I'm sure they are just as good as fury warriors, plus they bring utility which warriors sadly lack. I'd rather have a ret paly than a dps warrior any day.

The way to make tanks viable in PvP is to give them an ability that turns on collision detection, and maybe even block LoS. This would allow them to become an impenetrable wall, that couldn't just be ignored.