V'Ming - who thinks that gnome warlocks are travesties of nature and need to be KOSed - shares thoughts and ideas on becoming deadlier at the Arenas. He also dabbles in the dark arts in Blood Pact.
Looking at some of the upcoming class changes in patch 2.4, I can't help but feel that many of them are driven by PvP - particularly Arena - issues. Blizzard is undoubtedly trying to level the playing field for the classes before the 3v3 Arena Tournament, tentatively set to begin in April. That's a very short time to iron out problems and further imbalances that the patch will bring.
A design philosophy that Blizzard has insisted on from the beginning is that each class should play similarly in both PvP and PvP. Tom Chilton (Lead Designer, or Kalgan) said at last year's Blizzcon that the game "shouldn't have significantly different rules for spells in PvP vs PvE."
"Slower" water in Arenas is the latest change that depart from this philosophy, in addition to PvP-only diminishing returns, and PvP-oriented stats like Resilience and Spell Penetration. However, since many class changes apply to both PvP and PvE, PvE players seem to be "dragged" along by changes meant to tune their classes' PvP performance. Shamans and druids seem to be most affected this patch with changes to Nature's Swiftness, Elemental Mastery, Call of Thunder for shamans, and Lifebloom for druids.
In the light of this, it's also interesting to note Rob Pardo (Senior Vice President of Game Design) reiterating at the Game Developers Conference that the PvE side of WoW was developed first and the game "wasn't designed for PvP necessarily."
"We didn't design WoW up-front to be an e-sport game. We're now trying to retrofit this in -- I hope one day to implement some sort of spectator mode," he responded to a question on a spectator mode for PvP.
This Arena columnist feels that Blizzard is now trying to retrofit the entire game - and our beloved classes - into an e-sport game. We are into the fourth year of WoW and Blizzard seems to be realizing that regular PvE content development will never keep pace with the rate at which player consume it. Other than high-end raids designed for the elite gamer, most of us have repeated leveling content to different extents with different toons. The PvP and e-sport route is probably more sustainable in terms of player interest - and revenue - in the long run. PvP encounters are never the same, after all.
Is Blizzard trying to achieve too much with the WoW classes? From his presentation at the GDC, Rob indicated that they wanted the following for WoW:
- Solo to max level
- Have an important role in a group
- Have an important role in a raid
- Competitive in group PvP
- Be fun!
Ten million people is a lot of people to please, and Blizzard now seems to be risking the original design and appeal of the game to "retrofit" it into something else entirely. As mentioned by Rob, with Starcraft 2, Blizzard is making the multiplayer game first and filling in the single player game next, because "it's hard to go the other way around." With WoW, they made the PvE game first and seem to be trying to turn it into a PvP game, with the recent changes.
Do you think that PvP and PvE are mutually exclusive? How have PvP changes and gear affected your PvE exploits?
A quick look at last week's Arena games on US servers:
And the most popular comps for high-ranking US teams:
5v5
Warrior-Paladin-Priest-Shaman-Warlock 12.5% (-4.4% from my last sampling)
Warrior-Paladin-Priest-Shaman-Mage 8.8% (-3.6%)
Warrior-Paladin-Priest-Hunter-Warlock 4.4% (-1.2%)
The 5v5 bracket seems to be flattening out, which mean players are less reliant on these popular comps - always a good thing.
3v3
Rogue-Priest-Mage 13.4% (-5.5%)
Warrior-Druid-Rogue 8.9% (not in top three last sampling)
Warrior-Druid-Warlock 6.1% (not in top three last sampling)
Warriors, warlocks and priests play musical chairs here in this bracket but most teams rely on a two-DPS-one-healer format.
The upcoming worldwide 3v3 tournament, with $75,000 on the line, will certainly show how the various three-player comps shake out. For $20, you get to make up to three dream PvP characters - on a dedicated tournament server - with FREE access to ALL gear and no respec costs. This will mean a somewhat level playing field, and PvP fans will finally get to show off their skills, without gear holding them back.
Will the Rogue-Priest-Mage comp be the dream team to beat in the tournament? We'll certainly keep you posted!
2v2
Warrior-Druid 21.1% (-8.4%)
Warlock-Druid 14% (+3.4%)
Rogue-Priest 16% (+0.8%)
Slight drop in popularity of Warrior-Druid teams, presumably as more players learn how to deal with them.
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Reader Comments (Page 1 of 3)
2-22-2008 @ 7:18PM
Charlie said...
No its not. Blizzard's main focus is on PvE, the issue is that they are trying to play catchup. They have had 3 years to fine tune PvE, they have had just over a year to fine tune Arena.
In wrath, class tunings will likely be more equal, since they will know how to do it (arena) right from the begging.
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2-22-2008 @ 7:40PM
North said...
I might agree except Wrath will expand each talent tree which will reopen the entire balancing issue again.
2-22-2008 @ 7:22PM
Casey said...
If WoW is realy turning into a pvp game i bet its because everyone in the forums is all ways yelling about There isn't enough WAR in World of WARcraft !!!
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2-22-2008 @ 9:30PM
theRaptor said...
And they aren't adding WAR through arena. In fact arena pretty much makes no sense in the Warcraft lore. "Okay guys we are being besieged by demons, undead and various other horrors, so lets arrange gladiatorial combat amongst ourselves. Yeah that's a better idea then fighting all those nasties".
It is kind of stupid anyway as all the "hardcore" PVPers will probably move over to Warhammer:Online, as it has more of a pvp system then "grind honour for lootz".
WoW was always a PVE game with PVP tacked on, and they are annoying there core fan base of PVErs by putting so much emphasis on PVP.
2-22-2008 @ 7:36PM
Silverrealm said...
Well I have seen PvP gear overshadow the PvE professions and gear. So that is disappointing, but I am a PvE gamer and I occasionally PvP when I want to just screw around and kill an hour (or player) or two.
So I like having PvP but I sure hope they beef up PvE to rebalance the scales, cause right now on some servers professions are suffering as revenue for your toons, and that just sucks if you don't want to make a PvP career!
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2-22-2008 @ 7:39PM
Spoony said...
This game started as a PvE game but as more and more time has progressed it's becoming more and more focused on PvP and less and less focused on PvE. Since BC has launched there have been so many tweaks nerfing things for raiders because of pvp class imbalances. huge leaps in pvp gear quality ,especially in itemization, for all specs compared to Pve. A lot more pvp oriented spell and talent changes compared to raid oriented ones.
Overall it's been a sad year for PvE players playing this game and the only thing keeping a lot of people here is the lack of real competition and the lure of Wrath coming soon.
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2-22-2008 @ 7:44PM
nearlysober said...
THERE CAN BE ONLY ONE!
Seriously though... why does adding PvP detract from PvE? Why does focusing a bit on PvE mean PvP is being ignored? There's room for both in the game... people just want to hate on each other because their gear makes them feel special in an online world.
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2-22-2008 @ 8:14PM
ShuManFu said...
Dunno about you, but I can only do 1 thing at a time.
Unless they made all the raid instances PVP instances aswell that would be fun.
40v40 Naxx .. awesome
2-22-2008 @ 7:45PM
Hoggersbud said...
It's an interesting dynamic. On the one hand, you have PVE which is what some people play the game for, and on the other, is PVP which is what others play the game for.
A lot of times, their interests are in the same area, in others, they're divergent, and in some few, they're contradictory.
I dunno, I just wish there were more interesting aspects to PVP, at least for starting out. But even the level 10-19 BGs have twinks in them, so you find yourself at a disadvantage going in.
I kinda wish there was an option to basically get gear from the Horde or Alliance to use as a default BG/Arena set, and play only in BGs like that.
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2-22-2008 @ 7:59PM
Stephen said...
I disagree that is has "been a sad year for PvE players". Every major content patch has been centered on the release of a major new instance... BT, ZA, and now MT/SW. In addition to the addition of daily quests, heroic badge loot, etc. I'm really not sure what more you want?
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2-22-2008 @ 8:21PM
juicyjuice said...
Wayyy before Arenas were even an idea, before silithus and EPL pvp objectives and even before BGs, Hillsbrad foothills was a warzone every night. It was fun. Arenas? No, thats not fun...
Arenas have turned friends into bitter enemies, and literally have us at each other's throats sniffing for blood. We used to be able to focus are hatreds on the other faction, and it was justified because there were identifiable differences between our enemies. Now?? Now, you can actually run into an exact carbon copy of yourself in an arena. You can, you will, and you most likely already have. So now we have nothing to focus are hatreds on. So we hate on other classes and hate on our friends!
Arenas=Player Hater's Ball
This is why I honestly believe Arenas and Arena Rankings are taking almost all the fun out of this game. Its turning everyone against each other! Have we really been reduced to complaining about miniscule percentage differences between class representation, and some random person's rating that youve never even met/seen?
Im broken, youre broken, this whole system's broken!!
Heres my equation:
Arena matches + (anyplayerA - skill) x (enoughtime) = free epics
where f(enoughtime)=
[(anyplayerA - skill) /(other playerB skill + other playerB # of zomgepics)] - (amount of time spent QQing on forums + time spent on websites researching whos the best and what classes are overpowered and why anyplayerA needs buffs)
Insert your own variables to figure out what the real problem is...my problem is that i dont do arenas, so i have a big ZERO and of course any number times zero=zero :(
It just seems like everyone hates everyone else now cause were actually physically fighting and killing each other (err virtually physically, that is) instead of just fighting our opposing faction. Its turned us into monsters, and even worse green-eyed monsters! We hate anyone who has what we dont, and stands in the way of us getting it. Honestly, all these ranking systems have make WOW arenas the equivalent of a real life gossip program.
Arena system= wow version of perezhilton.com
Seriously people, what happened to the old days when we all just hated warlocks and laughed at huntards.
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2-22-2008 @ 11:19PM
ryno106 said...
9/10 - Great post.
2-23-2008 @ 10:44AM
Tereth said...
I like it. Cheers to your post.
2-25-2008 @ 2:02AM
isobelle said...
OUR
2-29-2008 @ 2:12PM
Badger said...
Well said, JJ.
2-22-2008 @ 9:02PM
dsimon said...
i'd settle for a game with stable servers, PvP or PvE.
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2-22-2008 @ 9:09PM
mattarin said...
i don't know i think pvp is the only fun thing to do for end-game. i think professions are over-rated has ppl are dumbasses and sell the mats really high so it costs more to make things then you can sell them for. instances get boring for me. i like to raid alliance towns sometimes but no one else does on my realm. i think pvp is more fun because you get to "kill" people and work for armor and weapons and don't have to bother with low drop rates for better gear, in instances you might have to run them 4 times in a row till you get want you want only to replace it with something better eventually and realize how much time you actually wasted.
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2-22-2008 @ 9:18PM
Arthian said...
I think it is becoming far too much of a PvP game. When spells get changed because of how they are in Arena, which can destroy there PvE utility, it goes to far.
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2-22-2008 @ 10:22PM
Felwrathe said...
Agreed.
I'm surprised Blizzard hasn't made any statements about it yet.
2-22-2008 @ 11:08PM
Java said...
PVP vs PVE is seriously causing a divide amongst the players in WoW. The core player base most of PVE raiders has certainly gotten a bad taste in its mouth over the welfare epics that get doled out.
No matter what the PVP crowd says, you will eventually get your welfare epics no matter how much you suck, you just gotta put your hour in a week in arena or go suck in battlegrounds.
The PVE base has to work together intently to gain access to thier gear through progression, they need to farm materials for potions, pay for hefty repair bills, more reagents and invest way more time.
The PVE end game community feels smited and they should, they are getting left behind at the expense of continued subscriber growth. This subscriber growth will be PVP people are really just ADD/ADHD type people who will abandon the game when the next cool thing comes around that will be just as easy.
The perfect example this week was the 2.4 PTR, where man regen scaled over time. It has become obvious that PVE has truly become an afterthought by virtue of the fact that it was so hastily added with little thought to the PVE consequences. It wasn't lazy, it was outright disregard for the PVE player base and Blizzard might want to start re-thinking it's must grow subscriber strategy and consider bringing more attention back to the core player base that will stay with them if they are supported and that is PVE.
Nuff said
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