Ready Check is a weekly column focusing on successful raiding for the serious raider. Hardcore or casual, Kara or BT, everyone can get in on the action and down them some bosses. Hong is still recovering from a vicious rabid koala attack, so you'll have to put up with me this week. We both feel sorry for you.
When you're in a raiding guild there is a natural attrition that happens at a slow but constant pace. A mage here will have to start classes, a priest there gets transferred to night shift. Your best rogue suddenly isn't feeling the game anymore and wants to take a break. A couple of friends decide that a more casual guild is better for them... I could spend all day listing the reasons why people take off and leave you hanging.
If you're on a high population server with a good chunk of your faction representin' in raid instances, then the normal course of action is to hit up your realm forums with a post containing who you're looking for and what your guild is like. You bump it every couple of days and wait for people to contact you. You can also spread the word over the guild recruitment channel or even have your guildmates ask around.
But what if you're not on that kind of server? What if you're on a medium population server where the closest guild progressing in your faction is a whole tier behind you?
You're working on Illidan while the nearest guild is making attempts on Kael. And behind them, the view is even bleaker for qualified recruits. This is the situation my guild has been in for some time now. And I've talked to many people who don't even have that. Their entire server is dying from a raiding standpoint and they have no hope of progression in their home realm.
Paid server transfers were introduced about 1.5 yrs ago as Blizzard's answer to allowing people to move from a situation they didn't like, to one they could potentially have more fun playing in. While some of the most advertised aspects of this were getting to play with friends or combining all of your many alts onto one server, it changed the face of raiding forever. No longer were you confined by what your particular server had to offer. You could recruit or be recruited from anywhere your continent-type account would let you. The WoW LFG forums were born!
So now the possibilities are nearly endless. You can find that guild that matches your raid availability times, the culture you're looking for, and the content you're ready to tackle. Likewise, guilds limited by their native server population can expand out and bring in fresh blood. For my guild, this means that about 40% of our current members are previous server transfers. The process happened over a series of months, not some sort of mass exodus, but now we pretty much exclusively recruit cross-server.
By doing this, our steady progression through content hasn't missed a beat. We just change our recruitment focus to match where we are on bosses and bring in people ready to roll. We can also be extremely picky as to who we recruit, since there are many fish in the sea to choose from now. It's been a really great experience.
We also have the chance to give back to the community by selling extra raid mats or crafting items from patterns they don't have access to. We're at the point now where we're selling the BoE patterns all of our crafters already have. Epic gems will eventually be added to the list once our own members are geared up.
But like everything, there is a downside. The first that pops into my mind is the lack of actual raiding experience you can have with a transfer ahead of time. In the old days for us, any potential recruit was required to run a heroic 5-man with the officers to be sure they knew what they were doing. Now we have to rely on Armory and WWS to tell us the things we can't easily check.
This means sometimes if people spin a good yarn, they can get into your guild. One tank we recruited looked great from what we could tell and had the personality we were looking for. They coughed up their $25 and we shot them an invite. On the first pull in SSC, it became apparent that they were missing some key class theorycrafting concepts. We tried, but the issues weren't fixable, and although they were now trapped on our server for the next 3 months, there wasn't much we could do about it. We let him go.
Another issue is the affect cross-transfer recruiting has on your own server. For one, the image you project towards your servermates can be seen as elitist when you're actively looking for people that are not them. I've seen backlashes from the community that either destroy guilds or make them defect to another realm. You'll still see the old folks sitting around Org, talking about the glory days of guild so-and-so.
Also, you're not really helping your realm in progression beyond your personal needs. Rather than taking the time to gear up and train the locals, you're bringing in insta-members. Just add water and you're good to go. And should those transfers not work out, there's little reason for them to stick around. Or on the flip side, if you're low on a selection of progression guilds, everyone that wants to raid starts leaving the server for greener pastures, leaving you with a tough road ahead if you want to stay and explore end-game.
Likewise, server transfers mean it's much easier to guild hop through progression, rather than actually stick with a guild and learn the fights. Tired of wiping on Kael? Chances are you'll be able to find a MH/BT willing to take you in. Plunk down some presidents and you've just created a morale issue for your old band of comrades.
So how has server transferring affected your raid group? Are you a fan of cross-realm recruiting or do you prefer the local player supply? Do you think the transfers help the MH/BT guilds more, and just create problems for those in TK/SSC/Kara? Paper or plastic?
Marcie Knox has been raiding for a coon's age. It's all she's ever wanted to do and would be lost without the 4 nights a week where she can help put bosses in their place. You might know her from the Raid Rx column, but then again, you migh not...
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Reader Comments (Page 1 of 1)
1-25-2008 @ 1:24PM
kdeselms said...
It is extremely easy for a well-geared guild who's doing BT to get a new recruit the upgrades they might need in order to contribute. I think a healthy guild has a core membership of raiders and then also a group of people "coming up" (like a farm team) who are coming in to get gear, learn their class well, and eventually contribute at the top level. If you're on BT, then it's not going to kill the raid to bring that one new, slightly undergeared person into SSC/TK to get geared up. The only time you need a "quick fix" is when the top end of your guild is also pretty much the only people that are involved in anything. The problem is, the hardcore raiders that reach the heights of the game can also become clique-ish and negligent in helping other guildies get geared, so they can sub in when necessary, etc...
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1-25-2008 @ 2:06PM
Algorithm said...
How do you "skip" Kael? Isn't the key an issue?
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1-25-2008 @ 4:02PM
Dave said...
You transfer to a guild that's geared past that point and they do a TK/SSC run on off nights to gear alts or to attune recruits.
It's much easier to clear an instance if the other 22-24 people know what they're doing and can reasonably expect to defeat it, than you can if your guild for whatever reason just can't get past the boss a single time.
This is pretty much how the top tier guilds on big servers make some serious guild bank cash by getting a core of 20 guys who can do it all... and can still defeat the bosses with 5 random people as long as the randoms don't do something to wipe the whole group. The big guild will sell vials and vortexes (and T5, etc) to members of the slightly less progressed members of another guild and at some point if the smaller guild can get enough people to buy their way past Kael, they can go ahead and raid BT/Hyjal... and once they're geared from BT/Hyjal further attempts at Kael are potentially easier.
1-25-2008 @ 2:12PM
Dacapan said...
I think the biggest fallacy when it comes to top tier guilds is the idea that they should only recruit fully geared individuals. One of the biggest points people miss about guilds that have advanced on the content is the fact that they are often farming other lesser raiding content. For example Thralls Chosen on Dalaran was known pre BC to run simultaneous MC runs on Saturday by splitting up those who had progressed in BWL and adding other "second tier" raiders to the mix. This had the effect of teaching the second tier the raids while also gearing them up for stepping in to BWL as needed. This is the best way to get people geared up and it it gets people used to the play styles of the the "first tier" so they were ready to step in when called. This became even more viable when Blizz decided to back away from 40 man raids in favor of 25 man raid instances.
I think a lot of good guilds miss out on a lot of talented people because they see someone who may not be geared as well as they like and they might take a month to get geared to their satisfaction. Granted, I am not opposed to cross-realm transfers for immediate emergency step ins, but in most cases (excluding tanks and maybe healers) if proper time is invested in a second team, then the transfer issue is often moot.
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1-25-2008 @ 2:14PM
Good_Idea said...
>>So how has server transferring affected your raid group?
It destroyed one guild when the aussies, who were 1/3 of the guild with many officers, transferred to an oceanic server.
Other than that, not really.
>>Are you a fan of cross-realm recruiting or do you prefer the local player supply?
No need yet since the guild is very loyal and stick together.
>> Do you think the transfers help the MH/BT guilds more, and just create problems for those in TK/SSC/Kara? Paper or plastic?
Creates problems and opportunities for everyone. It used to be that only local "lower level" guilds got the shaft, but it actually seems the high end guilds get nailed by server transfers more often than not.
I've also noticed a trend lately that people tend not to leave their current guilds very easily, whatever the conditions. Not sure if it's loyalty or compacency. But it's hard to recruit at times.
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1-25-2008 @ 2:29PM
anonymoose said...
This is a very interesting topic and I've been on the opposite side of this--as a working parent my raid times are very unique and quite limiting. I was originally on an amazing pvp server, however there were no guilds continuing to raid at my needed time.
I transferred to a pve server, to what I thought was a "good situation" complete with my desired raid time. You describe recruiting folks and then discovering they aren't a good fit--I was recruited into a guild of very mean folks on a server that had a suprisingly high level of interguild conflict. I moved into another guild which did not go well.
I'd like to point out that on my server of origin, I had *no problems* aside from the fact that I couldn't find my needed raiding time.
I've now transferred again, and I have to say as someone in search of a good fit (and mind you, good fit does not mean bypassing content; I've been open to guilds with *good people* ie not jerks, even if it means a step backward from the content I've been in) it is a really difficult process. When you transfer there are no guarrantees, no matter how much research you do up front, that you are actually arriving into a good situation.
Without prior access unrestricted access to guild forums and regular guild chat, it can be impossible to tell what underlying challenges you are arriving into. It can be impossible to really know short of being there for 30 days whether the choice was a good one or not.
You're concerned about the recruits who might be dishonest, I'm far more concerned about guilds who are dishonest (and they are out there, I have experienced this first hand). As someone originally from a pvp server who transferred to a pve server, I have to say I've been completely let down by this process and especially the fact that I cannot go home again.
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1-25-2008 @ 2:45PM
anonymoose said...
I wanted to address a second aspect of your column which is that of native server skill level. If folks want to avoid having to rely on the unknown variables of cross realm recruiting, then it becomes the responsiblity of the progressed on the server to help the less progressed. Various servers accomplish this in a variety of ways.
Some servers have a history of pug activity for raid content which allows those with more experience a dkp free way to hit up retired content, as well as check out the potential recruit pool. It allows those new to raiding some opportunity to learn content and acquire gear, as well as making connections with people from guilds they might like to apply to in the future.
On some servers the guilds who have cleared TBC may volunteer some time to help out up and coming guilds either running their alts or mains--OR having their alts join an up and coming "weekends" guild to run with lower geared/lower experienced mains to get through the content.
Some people bemoan this idea of assisting folks not in your guild--but the reality is that if you are not grooming your native skill, you are in a state of atrophy on your server and you will be *forced* to rely on cross realm recruitment.
FWIW I'm in a BT/MH guild and I support the idea of working with native skill on the server to increase the amount of knowledge, gearing, and skill that is available locally.
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1-25-2008 @ 3:14PM
spellproof said...
I recently transferred off my native server to a new server and a new guild for raiding opportunities. Without cross-server recruitment, I would have found myself stuck on my old realm with very little chance of raiding on my main (a hunter) -- not because no one was raiding there, but because my guild fell apart and all the other well-established guilds had a more-than-full roster (especially for DPS). As it is, it was hard to make the leap, and I knew I was taking a big chance, but I landed on a friendly server in a great guild that really suits me where I'm getting to experience the content I want. For me personally, it's been a very good thing.
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1-25-2008 @ 3:35PM
Rhett said...
I think that you are seeing two different sets of comments arise here. The first, is from the viewpoint of the guilds. As I stated earlier, developing native talent is the most sure fire way to ensure that you find people that fit the guild and that are willing to put in the time and energy necessary to raid high end content.
From an individual perspective, there are always cases where a transfer becomes a must (like when there is no one on your server raiding in your time slot). However, the risk in the move is also greater, because you are out the money, there is no guarantee that the guild will workout, and there are 600,000 more of you out there (6 percent of the 10 million WOW population are end-game raiders). This means that a guild can replace you much easier than you can find another guild.
The end result is that I would argue that while there are limited uses for server transfers, generally, the best bet is to stay local if possible because of the certainty it brings.
1-25-2008 @ 4:07PM
Angus said...
An Alliance guild transferred off our server. They were the only BT guild we had. They felt the server just didn't have the population to recruit and they didn't want to have to rehash old content constantly to get new people geared and keyed. They disbanded 2 weeks later.
They are lucky though, since they have the ability to get into BT guilds on that server. Otherwise they'd all have been stuck in content they knew, being the people other guilds looked to for advice and leadership... Seems like they had opportunities but failed to see them.
I'm less than impressed with transfers from other servers and to other servers. If I didn't have friends I would never have moved my paladin. Seeing a bunch of opportunities is nice, but when they are mixed with pitfalls...
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1-25-2008 @ 4:11PM
Shae said...
My guild actually calls this outsourcing and whilst it does happen now and then that we'll get a request from a good raider from another server, it's typically not the route we prefer to take newbies on board.
One of our favorite things to do as a raiding guild is to take a not-so-experienced (or well geared) player from our own server and give them the opportunity to join. If they're willing to put in the time and dedication, we're willing to help. We'll help them get keyed, attuned and geared. We bring them along on as many 5 man heroics and raids as possible and let them learn through experience.
Typicaly a new member such as this will be assigned a peer, someone who's comfortable with their class or role to help smooth along the process and someone as a primary point of contact to learn from and to answer questions when they come up. We have a very open policy when it comes to questions, there is literaly no dumb questions in our guild!
By doing this we've found that not only are we creating really great quality players, giving opportunity to those who may not have been given a chance by more "serious" raiding guilds but we're developing friendships within our guild and that for us, even before raid progression, is what is most important.
Yes what we do takes time and to be very honest we've had times when people have taken advantage of our policy by gearing up and leaving later but this is BY FAR seldom happens anymore.
Another thing you have to take into account is player loyalty. Because of our devotion to them, our guild members are extremely devoted to us. Sure their might be bigger raiding guilds out there but we've all played hard together, we've all given up a little for each other. That's bond that's hard to break and for my guild... I wouldn't have it any other way.
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1-25-2008 @ 5:42PM
Rob said...
This is a hard thing, particularly for underdeveloped servers. On our server, nobody has seen MT/BT. There are a handful of guilds on 25 man content. Alot of guilds are attempting kara but few really master it I think. We have problems just getting enough people to do kara. We have a well geared and seasoned kara team, but after months of work we are all burned out on kara. We dont have the people to get to 25mans, so we feel somewhat stuck. Efforts to recruit in forums have been without success. We will get people from word of mouth and guild disintigrations, and that's the best way. We often get people who feel like they want to do kara but for many reasons are not a good fit for the team. The are too immature, dont want to put in the time, etc. People are deluded into thinking raids == easy epics. I dont think we will transfer, but we have lost top caliber people because of progression issues. Usually these people move off server, making the available pool of talented raiders even smaller. I'm not sure what the solution is, but we desparately need another group of raiders so we can try 25mans.
1-25-2008 @ 5:56PM
Good_Idea said...
One more comment.
If you are a good, skilled player, eventually there will be a spot for you in a top guild. Every guild has turnover and eventually there will be a spot for your class.
So really, if you are patient, there is no need to do a server transfer, sooner or later there is always an opening. Also helps to be enthusiastuc/keen, yet not annoying.
Like I said before, BT/Hygal guilds were hurt the most by server transfers, especially when they were working on Vashj and Kael and were struggling.
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1-25-2008 @ 6:10PM
Theserene said...
One of my friends heads up a guild in similar circumstances.
What they have done is a combined gearing up/money creating scheme where they basically take inexperienced people through the lower raids so they can get geared up, charging for the privilage of course.
That way they got a lot of situations where they realised the person they were gearing up was actually exceptionally good and offered them a place in their guild. Which, it being the foremost guild on the server, people were happy to accept.
They never did cross-server recruiting and the people they got are fantastically loyal because they were given the chance .
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1-25-2008 @ 8:29PM
Anorax said...
A personal frustration of mine is to see so many guilds on my server (some 15 plus) all recruiting for 25-man raids. It seems like everyone wants to start a new guild and therefore there is a dilution of skilled people on the server.
If many of these guilds swallowed their pride and merged with other guilds then they could be progressing very quickly and actually be in HJ/BT instead of struggling through SSC/TK because of a lack of players.
But I guess everyone wants to be a leader and not a follower.
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1-26-2008 @ 8:27AM
Kirk said...
I started playing WoW about a year before TBC, on a new, poor progression RP server. But I was lucky enough to be a 'native talent' healer. My gear was bad, and I really didn't know much about the game beyond whack-a-mole, but it was good enough for MC, and I accumulated DKP and then gear. Eventually I was one of our core healers and we were clearing BWL, only one of two horde guilds to do so.
I had to stop due to RL shortly before TBC, and when I came back my guild was gone. Drama about changing raid size I guess. Leaders from other guilds had also left the server. I hooked up with remnant guildies in a new guild, and while there were still some decent players, there were not enough for consistent Kara groups. I eventually decided the guild wasn't dedicated enough to do the kind of content I wanted to see.
I tried hooking up with a recently established reroll guild, hoping it would have the momentum to push through Kara, and for a few weeks, WoW was fun again. Then the leaders started burning out, realizing how much responsibility leading raids was. I saw the ship sinking and decided only a character transfer would save me.
So, I tracked down some rumors that the core players of my first raiding guild had reformed, some with new characters including the GM's prot warrior. I transferred my farming alt, and began my career as a Mage. The Mage's gear was bad, but they had just started Kara and I had time to catch up with my keys and some 5 man blues and appropriate enchants. The week I got my Kara key, I was tapped to finish off Netherspite at the end of a clear! Raiding without healing was quite exciting. Soon I straightened out my spec, learned the virtues of spell hit, and now we are 5/6 in Serpentshrine Cavern.
Its great playing with my comrades from BWL again. Perhaps without server transfers they might not have left our old server to begin with, but they might also have just created new characters and we would have had no way to hook up again. The prospect of being without the only real raiding guild I have ever known still lingers, but I think at least until the next expansion I have found my niche.
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1-26-2008 @ 1:04PM
Bohemienne said...
I transferred to the author's guild about 4 months ago, when the guild was working on Kael'thas. My old guild had been stuck on Vashj (with the rest of SSC and 2/4 TK cleared) for some time, and it had become apparent that my old guild's leadership wasn't willing to make the changes in attitude, management, and recruitment necessary to progress with the dedication that I was looking for.
When looking around at other servers, it was of course tempting to roll the dice with guilds that had already cleared MH/BT and get phat lewtz with hardly any effort. But I wanted to continue the challenge of progressing; I love the thrill of a new boss kill. So I went with a guild that was only a few bosses ahead of where I was, and was still in the same "bracket" of raid instances, also on an RP server, with the same amount of raid nights and so on--which showed me that the guild was better managed, if it could progress further in the way it had given the same sort of conditions that existed for my old guild. Killing Kael'thas with the new guild for our first kill was a fantastic feeling, and that carried all the way to our first Illidan kill last week :D
Transferring can work out wonderfully. But do your research, don't be too ambitious in jumping ahead in progression, and of course be realistic about your own skills and availability.
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