Every Monday Scott Andrews contributes Officers' Quarters, a column about the ins and outs of guild leadership.We often talk about our guilds as if they are families. A family would do anything for each other, wouldn't they? The writer of this week's e-mail asks, When it comes to helping your guildmates with real-life problems, where do you draw the line?
I've been reading your Officers' Quarters column, and I would like your input. I am a longtime (2 years plus) member of an Alliance guild and also a senior officer in a similar-sized Horde guild. In the Alliance guild, one of the members is a teenager who has also been in the guild for a long time. This guildie, along with his father, are well-known in the guild, but the teen is more known for his offensive and insulting behavior in guild chat and in raids. Several members of the guild have left specifically because of this kid. It's also known that he is on medication for behavioral problems. Despite his unpleasant behaviour, he has not been removed from the guild, which has caused a lot of friction.
In the Horde guild, there is a similar situation. One of our younger members is known to be having problems with his family, and in-game, he has been showing problems with anger management. This weekend, he crossed the line by being insulting and using unacceptable language. He was warned twice, and then quit the guild. Later, he apologized to one of the officers and wanted to rejoin the guild. I recommended against his reinstatement, and one of the officers (who previously mentored this kid) thought we should've given him a second chance. The whole incident left a bad feeling with me, because I see that this kid had problems at home, and enjoyed the social aspect of the guild. However, my experience in the Alliance guild showed me that retaining these types of members can seriously affect the guild.
Should guilds be responsible for looking after the real life emotional needs of its members? I know for some guildies, the guild fulfills a huge part of their daily interaction, and for some of those with personal problems or medical conditions, this is even more so. My question is this: where do guilds draw the line between being a 'family', and being a group of friends with a like-interest in WoW?
Cheers,
-- Uncaringbear
Allow me to begin with my own story about a similar situation. A long time ago, we had a member of the guild who stopped playing for a long time, and then returned one day. It's possible that he sold the account to someone else, because he acted somewhat differently from the way I remembered him. Our guild was massive back then, and it wasn't someone I knew very well. But I remembered that he had been a quiet player who went about his business, occasionally asking for advice or crafting help. When he came back, he spent most of his time online fishing for attention in an awkward way.
He would, without any prompting whatsoever, type out in /g something like this: "I wish I had a girlfriend." Or, worse, "Can somebody tell me how to stop feeling lonely?" The /g channel would go dead quiet. No one really knew what to say, and it wasn't a topic that you'd want to discuss in a public forum, anyway. If he was genuine, and not simply stirring up weirdness, he was obviously suffering from depression.
Several of our officers tried to help him. They'd have private conversations with him, trying to cheer him up and to figure out what was going on in his life. He'd give noncommittal answers that made them keep asking questions, doing his best to draw out the conversation. But nothing they said seemed to help him, and they couldn't get him to stop making the awkward comments in /g.
A few weeks went by, and he had become notorious in the guild. A lot of people felt sorry for him. Many were just sick of him and wanted me to kick him out of the guild. I refused to do it, fearing that we were his only social outlet and removing him from the community would make his situation even worse. Besides, he hadn't done anything against the rules. He just made people uncomfortable.
Eventually, he went off the deep end, and started making wild accusations about one of the officers being a racist. He wouldn't stop after repeated warnings and requests to calm down. He gave us no choice: We had to kick him. I haven't heard from him since, but I hope that whatever he's doing now, he's feeling better.
I learned a lesson, though: There's only so much you can do for someone in your guild. I like to think of my guild as a family, but the hard reality is, some people need way more help than a person can give in this context. Some people might need a parent's intervention, or professional counseling, or even medication. You can try to support them, but ultimately their problems are much more serious than you can fix.
That doesn't mean you should shun them, but it doesn't mean you should let them treat other people in the guild with disrespect, either. So there is a line, and you should make it clear to the person where that line is. Some people will intentionally test those limits, and some will cross the line to see what you do about it. If they're acting this way, you have to stick to your guns and do what you said you'd do. Some of those people will never come back. Some will realize you're serious and change their tune.
It sounds like the kid in Uncaringbear's Horde guild is the latter. In general, when the person apologizes like that, I'd recommend giving them a second chance. When they see that you mean what you say, they may -- emphasis on may -- stop testing you and behave. It's a risk of course. Your members might not share your patience with the situation. I'd also say that, in such a case, a second chance is all they should get.
Fortunately, these cases are the rare extreme. A guild can act as a family and help people through plenty of problems, even very serious ones. When my father passed away suddenly two years ago, my guildmates were incredibly supportive and really helped me through that difficult time, just by being there for me. We've supported people through everything from becoming a new parent to having their house destroyed. It's one of the best parts of being in a close-knit guild, so take advantage of it when you can!
/salute
Send Scott your guild-related questions, conundrums, ideas, and suggestions at scott.andrews@weblogsinc.com. You may find your question the subject of next week's Officers' Quarters!
Subscribe
Reader Comments (Page 1 of 2)
1-21-2008 @ 11:14AM
TonyMotorola said...
Go find a guild that isn't full of bleeding hearts that will put up with abuse from mentally unstable children.
You're doing it wrong if your guild and members are causing you anxiety.
Reply
1-21-2008 @ 11:18AM
Spad said...
It depends on the situation. Kids definetly deserve a bit more patience and mentoring. They've not learned the "rules" of society or social ettiquete and I'd consider it my responsibility to take the higher ground and be mature. I'm not they should get away with anything they want, sometimes a gkick may be a good lesson in itself.
However adults and older kids (by which I'd say...aged 16 and up) being disruptive...one warning and you're out.
Reply
1-21-2008 @ 11:30AM
Razhlok said...
We don't get that involved in the personal lives of our members. If someone is being disruptive or has a mental defect that causes them to disrupt others in the guild then I'd rather not have that person in the guild. These are people I play a videogame with, they aren't my family, they aren't even on the same personal level as my co-workers. Decisions have to be made based soley on what's best for the guild. No exceptions.
Reply
1-21-2008 @ 11:37AM
Mel said...
And that right there is the reason why I don't allow kids in the guild as long as I don't get paid to nurture or babysit other people's brats. If someone has a problem he is better off with a professional shrink, not a guild full of people who don't have the slightest inkling about psychology.
Reply
1-21-2008 @ 12:42PM
Theserene said...
And someone who is not a professional therapist could do more harm than good to an obviously damaged person. I agree, it is better that people with issues get them treated by professionals and not the guild priest...
1-21-2008 @ 2:16PM
Lucas said...
You realize adults have mental problems too, right?
And seeing that there are more adults in the world than children, it would stand to reason to say there are more adults in wow who have mental problems than children in wow who have mental problems.
Age discrimination FTL
1-21-2008 @ 11:37AM
illirien said...
I think it's important to remember this is a game. All those people on the other side of the screen are real people, but the point of being in wow at the same time with those real people is to have fun. If someone is seeking emotional help from people in the game, they're looking in the wrong place. The best thing a responsible person can do is let them know this, in a kind way.
Reply
1-21-2008 @ 11:51AM
Miresa said...
As a more mature player, I find that it doesn't take long for our younger guild members to single me out as someone they can confide in. As long as it doesn't take up too much of my time, I'm more than glad to "listen" to them and offer words of comfort or advice. I was a mess at that age, and would have loved having someone to stop and listen to me for a few minutes. Sometimes that's all it takes.
Reply
1-21-2008 @ 11:52AM
Naix said...
Leave your problems at the login screen.
Reply
1-21-2008 @ 12:06PM
Slayblaze said...
While I agree that sometimes the younger players can cause these kind of issues with the guild as many are pointing out, its not always just the younger players that have "maturity issues". I have been amazed several times how mature and well-mannered several of the younger players have been which I've grouped or been guilded with. I have also been equally amazed at how incredibly juvenile some of the older adult players can be. Especially in guild chat. As a guild officer there have been just as many times that I've had to step into guild chat and put a stop to the converstaion between the older members as there have been with the younger ones.
Reply
1-21-2008 @ 12:08PM
recrudesce said...
@Miresa: completely agree. having gone through depression myself, it's a hell of a lot easier to say what you want via a text based medium - WoW gives you that social aspect at the same time it gives you the seperation from face to face communications. i have found that talking via a keyboard means you are less inclined to hide your emotions.
good on you for being there for other people if needed. i'm there for people now, much like they were there for me. i dont mind whether it's in person or in /g.
Reply
1-21-2008 @ 12:15PM
Jason said...
It's a game. Kick his ass out. People pay for this game and should anyone in the guild seriously get in the way of their enjoyment as it seems this kid has i'd kick him in a heartbeat.
Reply
1-21-2008 @ 12:30PM
Chrissie said...
i agree with mel!
people who are obviously depressed and 'seeking' the attention they have been neglected or whatever the reason may be cannot possibly get the 'fulfillment' they need from their guild mates.
i understand that many people use WOW as an escape, a getaway to release tensions and anxieties felt from their jobs and family, but what these individuals don't understand is that we all don't have the answers.
the guild i was in prior had an individual in it that suffered from low self-esteem and depression. he was a very lonely individual and felt like an outcast because of his lack of friends and disruptive family life. it wasnt his fault but he started to become dependent on the guild and when the guild slowly fell apart (gm switching servers didnt help lol) we all went our seperate ways.
the point is, a guild is not a therapist, teacher, doctor, clinician, counselor, or lawyer! if you need any sort problems related to the descriptions i just listed above, please contact one immediately in your local phone book or internet connection!
Reply
1-21-2008 @ 12:36PM
DavidC said...
In general, when a kid joins a guild they need to be put on notice that their "age" is not an excuse for bad behavior. They will be expected tow-the-line. They may need a bit more guidance as to where that line is, but towing that line is not an option.
Officers should pull aside *ANY* guild member that is not acting appropriately and correct them. Everyone gets the same chance at taking correction regardless of age.
You correct them, in private ... if they continue with the bad behavior, then they are out. Regardless of the reason. You are NOT helping the kid by enabling him to be BAD ... you are actually hurting them.
Especially children with "difficulties" of some sort. They need to learn how to cope with society even though they have "difficulties". Politically correct tree hugging emo seal lovers might tell you they need "special consideration" ... but they don't.
It's more important for them to learn to cope with their "difficulty" and be a productive member of society then it is for them to be in "your guild".
In either case ... your not the parent so don't try to be. Mentoring is fine if they are open to it ... but your best course is to Set the Example and communicate what needs to be done ... then enforce those guidelines.
Reply
1-21-2008 @ 12:40PM
Theserene said...
'They need to learn how to cope with society even though they have "difficulties".'
This comment is so full of win I cannot begin to describe it :)
1-21-2008 @ 5:43PM
Zegim said...
I couldn't agree more.
1-21-2008 @ 12:39PM
Theserene said...
I don't care if they ARE on medication for behavioral problems, it's still not an excuse for abusing other people.
I wouldn't accept that from a member of staff, I am sure as heck not accepting it from a guild member.
Behavioral problems, mental issues or just plain angst gives you no right to not act like a halfway decent human.
Reply
1-21-2008 @ 7:48PM
theRaptor said...
Not giving consideration to illnesses which may cause someone to behave in a non-socially acceptable way, means you aren't a half decent human being.
1-22-2008 @ 12:51PM
Theserene said...
I HAVE several medical problems of my own and am in fact disabled. None of which grant me the right to act like an ass and have people pat me on the back for it because I am 'special'.
1-21-2008 @ 12:42PM
Cynra said...
My guild is in a somewhat unique position: about 80% of my guild resides in a small town in the midwest while I'm their guild leader and residing on the East Coast. It's mostly a bunch of guys in college, but there are also their siblings or family members and even one gentleman who has been the boss of most of them when they worked at the local grocery store.
As the guild's main authority figure and a woman generally known to be open to talking whenever about almost anything, a lot of them come to me when they have issues (in-game or out) or just want to get something off of their chests. This is fine: I enjoy helping and know the value of just ranting to someone, even if it's not in person and just through tells or on Vent one evening. Also, a lot of the time those things that they're ranting about are things that might be going on between multiple people in the guild, so knowing these issues ahead of time by having them come to me means that the other Generals and I can preempt having confrontations crop up at inopportune times (for example, in the middle of a raid). I've served as a mediator and I've served as judge-jury-executioner, as the situation demands.
This works, however, because I maintain strict a strict code of confidentiality: as long as what is told to me wouldn't endanger the health or wellbeing of any member of the guild (themselves included), no one will ever know what we talked about. This doesn't mean that I coddle them, mind you; I have no problems pulling rank and dealing with disruptive behavior, even if repeated offenses mean that I have to kick someone from the guild. We're a family guild with about forty people and most of us are damned fine friends and have actually gone as far as to hang out together. I know all of their first names, we call each other on a frequent basis outside of the game just to talk, and I've met most of them in-person. As such, we're friends, and I'll treat them as I would any friend - until their behavior warrants that I assume my role as an authority figure. At this point, I'm not just concerned about my gameplay, but also the fun that the other thirty-eight members of the guild have.
Reply