Every Monday Scott Andrews contributes Officers' Quarters, a column about the ins and outs of guild leadership.This is going to be a tricky week for me, since my girlfriend reads this column. Like most subjects, I'm not claiming to have all the answers about this, but in this case I'm really clueless sometimes. I'm wondering how other guild leaders and officers out there handle it.
So this week, I'm the one providing the question!
Dear Readers:
How do you deal with having a significant other in the guild -- especially when he or she isn't an officer?
Thanks!
Scott
It wouldn't be much of a column without more explanation, so I'll share my experience, and you guys can tell me how badly I'm screwing it up.
The first time I showed my girlfriend Sarah (name changed to protect the innocent) this crazy online game that was sucking away my time, she wasn't very impressed. I think I was about level 30 at the time. I showed her my hunter, walked around Thunder Bluff to see the pretty graphics (which weren't bad back in 2004), and then killed a few kodos to demonstrate how combat worked. I even did a few /flirt's and /silly's to show off the game's personality. She had never played anything like this before. Even so, I thought maybe, if I showed Warcraft to her, she might become intrigued and want to try it out.
She was terribly, terribly bored. I logged off, my hopes dashed.
Months passed, and Sarah started to realize that the game was more than just a waste of time for me. I had made a number of good friends online and took increasing pride in the success of my guild. About a year later, on a lazy Saturday afternoon, I suggested she give it another try. My plan was different this time. I asked her to sit down in front of the computer and make her own character. She made an Undead warlock and giggled at how you could design them without a mouth. I walked her through the first few quests and how combat worked, but I never took control of her character away, live or die. I showed her how to /dance and how to talk to one of our friends who was online at the time. After a few levels she got her imp, whose antics made her smile. Pretty soon she was completing quests on her own. An hour went by, then two hours, and then we realized she was going to be late for work. Sarah was officially addicted.
I bought her the game and a better video card. For those of you whose significant others also play, you know how great it is when you finally get them on board. No longer do you have to keep your game character and your real life entirely separate, like Batman and Bruce Wayne. I rolled a warrior alt so I could level up with her, and we quested and ran dungeons to 60, facing our enemies side by side. Warcraft leaked into our lives. We talked talent points over candlelit dinners. We traveled to guild parties in other states. We were having a blast. For me, it was like a dream come true. For the most part, it still is!
But there were also some difficult moments, and these moments still happen from time to time. What do you do when you're questing with your girlfriend, but your guild needs you for a raid you weren't planning on attending? I'm sure most WoW couples encounter these situations, but it's somewhat worse when you're an officer. For me, at first, the question was easy to answer: As GL, I took the attitude that the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few. I would go to the raid. But Sarah would get upset, and I couldn't understand why. In my mind, she was being selfish by expecting me to play my alt with her when all those people were counting on me to make the raid happen.
It took me a few arguments to realize it, but I was being selfish too. I didn't want to say no to the raid because I couldn't bear to let my guild down. I had every right to refuse them, but I felt obligated as GL to drop everything for my guildmates whenever they needed me. I wanted to protect my reputation as a team player, and I didn't think people would understand my reasons for saying no. Still, Sarah needed me too, and she valued our time together online. She hated to see me gallavanting off to do content she couldn't yet participate in. To her it felt like we were out on a date, but then a friend called me and I ditched her.
We still have this problem, but we're managing it better these days. I've learned that it helps greatly when I tell her up front what my plan is for the night. Sometimes I'll tell her, "Tonight, we'll do whatever you want to do." And I'll stick to that, regardless of what happens. But sometimes I'll say, "Well, I'd like to quest with you tonight, but they might need me for Gruul." Or, "Sorry, I've got to go to Zul'Aman." This communication has averted most of the conflict. It helps that she can come to some of the raids, too. But we still get into it now and again when I'm doing my own thing too much.
The other main issue is of course the special treatment she may or may not get, being the girlfriend of the GL. Her main character is getting geared up, but she's not the best warlock we have, and she's OK with that. She does her best to improve and doesn't expect preferential decisions in her favor when it comes to getting into raids or getting loot. I mostly try to stay impartial, but sometimes I do request her for a Kara run or remind people on their alts that they can't roll against her main character. When I do that, I feel funny about it. But then I remind myself that I've done similar things for other people in the past who were having a hard time getting into runs or in danger of getting screwed out of loot they deserved. Would I have done it in each case if the person wasn't my girlfriend? Well, that's difficult to answer. I don't really know.
Things would be simpler if Sarah were an officer. She would face some of the same pressures and expectations that I face. Why isn't she? She's certainly been in the guild long enough. She doesn't have the same grasp of game mechanics that my other officers do, but she'd be great at the people-management aspects. She's also the most organized person I know, so she'd be outstanding at scheduling stuff or running the bank. But she's never expressed an interest in becoming an officer, and her play time does tend to fluctuate quite a bit from week to week. Some weeks she's on almost every day. During others she barely logs in. It's not an ideal situation for a leadership role.
So we're in the same place we were two years ago when she started playing. We've learned a lot about each other's habits and expectations since then, but we still butt heads from time to time. I'm really curious what others have done in my situation. How do you balance your time together and your obligations to the guild? How do you avoid giving him or her special treatment? What other problems have you run into? Thanks in advance!
/salute
Send Scott your guild-related questions, conundrums, ideas, and suggestions at scott.andrews@weblogsinc.com. You may find your question the subject of next week's Officers' Quarters!
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Reader Comments (Page 1 of 2)
12-31-2007 @ 11:22AM
Wired said...
... feed her to the murlocs? :) j/k
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12-31-2007 @ 11:23AM
Che said...
I'm in the military and for quite a while, my girlfriend and I lived about 5 hours apart. Her brother played WoW a lot and one day while she was visiting me in my barracks, we created a priest for her and she started playing. As the months progressed, instead of lengthy phone convos at night, we'd sign on to Warcraft and have a WoWdate. She joined my guild (you can never have too many healers, right?) and before long, she was healing like a champ in Kara and Gruul's. We've been married for about 8 months now and one of the first priorities we made when we got our apartment was a room for our two desktops and a high-speed internet connection.
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12-31-2007 @ 11:24AM
Sanj said...
My guild is on the verge of breaking up because my Guild Master just got a guildy pregnant. No joke, no lie. Obviously, we support him in his endeavor to provide for the baby 100%, even if it means we don't raid or the guild might not exist. IRL > life, but hey they found love which is great too.
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12-31-2007 @ 11:26AM
Jason said...
My lovely bride to be and I are in the same guild, and it's never been a problem. I'm a top officer, but I split my time equally between helping her and helping others. I love the fact that she plays and no one else minds either. It should only be a positive when your loved ones want to share in your activities; if there's a problem, then there is most likely a larger issue involved beyond the game.
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12-31-2007 @ 11:36AM
Rainnajax said...
My partner started playing about a year ago and got me into it a few months later. I joined the same guild she was in and in our guild are several other real-life couples, including our Guild Leaders. In our case, I think it works well to an extent because we have become a sort of weird little dysfunctional family, and when conflict does arise, sometimes the sig others are able to help bring resolution to the situation. However, when we do lose a couple, it is tough because usually we lose two instead of one. This hasn't happened regularly but has happened. I think it is very much relegated to the personalities of those involved. Some groups and couples will make it work and other's won't. It is a very hard thing to generalize.
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12-31-2007 @ 11:39AM
Iggy said...
How do I handle it? Unrepentant nepotism.
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12-31-2007 @ 12:59PM
Hollywood Ron said...
That's how everyone else handles it, too. people who sex me up>people who don't sex me up.
12-31-2007 @ 11:41AM
Bernard said...
I experienced the same type of thing when my guild was raiding MC. I felt compelled as the GL and a Priest to be on every raid, but my wife couldn't raid yet so she got upset that I had to do things with them all the time. Then she got her Rogue to 60 and the Raid Leaders still wouldn't let her into the raids since our regular Rogues were pretty regular and almost always there. She also rarely got into runs for Strat or Scholo and never without me starting the group to make sure she got in. I quit WoW partly for this reason. I started back up and we are Duoing together and for the most part guildless. I want to get back into a guild but she doesn't for fear that the same thing will happen again. I really don't know what to say to get her more interested in raiding since that seems to be where I want to go once I hit 70 and even Heroics seem off her radar.
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12-31-2007 @ 12:07PM
Shae said...
My boyfriend and I both play WoW and are in vitually the same situation as Scott mentions above. He is a co-GL but I am an officer and class leader for the guild also so that certainly helps as I have a small idea of what he goes through in terms of responsibilities.
That being said, I think we do well because we understand each others point of view on the game. He is by far a more "hardcore" player than I, I do then to have more downtime and quite enjoy just logging in to chat and catch up with friends as where his playtime is often taken up with raiding and other leader'ish duties. I help out when and however I can but am contant to helping with recruits and chipping in with raiding here and there.
We're extremely happy with our hobby that is WoW, some couples play cards together, some take dance or paint lessons together. We spend some of spare time in WoW and have a wonderful time at it.
I will say this though, the first time I beat my boy at our monthly guild duel tournament he heard about it for months!!! (Even though I'd lost more times than I'd care to admit in the past) If you ask him, that's probably the biggest pain of having a girlfriend in guild... the gloating :)
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12-31-2007 @ 12:13PM
big_a88 said...
My wife is our GM of our medium-sized guild and I'm not an officer. Quite frankly, I'm AOK with that. I never have, and never want to be an officer. I make it a point to tell other members when it comes up that she runs the guild how she wants and I don't have access to /o or to the officer forums on the guild site. Obviously, we talk about how the guild is going/running, and our love of WoW in general, but her and her officers can make all of the tough decisions.
We leveled up our mains together and unlike me, she's an altoholic and I help her occasionally with instances, but most of the time, other than raiding, we're spending what we deem as "quality time" while she's working on alts and I'm doing dailies.
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12-31-2007 @ 12:14PM
Chrissie said...
My fiance and I have been through similar experiences Bernard, but have learned that every guild is different. We were in a guild similar to your situation that never relied on us because of our unreliability (which is a nice way of saying our irl lives were more important than the game). Even though we gave some of our valued time by helping their alts through runs in SM, BRD, and so on.
After fighting and cursing our way up to level 70 we finally left the guild we grew up with and within 24 hours were invited into the guild we are with today. We haven't been raiding much but the guild leader is at least striving to work with our schedules to see which days and times would be the best so that we can get attuned for Kara and such.
Were all casual gamers and we're striving to get better gear and such, but we all are kinda just waiting for WOTLK since it will most likely have better loot than BC anyway. So until then I'll stick with my Valanos Bow lol! ^_~
The point I'm trying to make is that every guild is different and if you and your significant other are willing to try out a casual guild, come on over to Feathermoon and look up The Allerian Nightwatch. We are all very friendly folk and know that not everyone has all the time in the world to get epic gear or more gold than they can carry. ^_^
Akamiya of Feathermoon
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12-31-2007 @ 12:32PM
donny said...
Hey, a little special treatment never hurt anyone...
Who knows, maybe you can get some "special treatment" in return. :)
12-31-2007 @ 1:02PM
Ryan said...
Just make sure they run the DKP system, and all is well.
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12-31-2007 @ 1:31PM
rick gregory said...
Well...
1) You can't tell people their alts can't roll against her main unless that's a general rule. Otherwise you're pissing people off and setting up drama. That qualifies as a "duh" so...
2) If the raid very occasionally needs you when they didn't plan to that's one thing. If it's happening a lot (scheduled raid, the person filling that slot bailed) then you have other guild issues. If it's a spur of the moment raid, she's right. You ARE cutting out on her to go play with others. They're NOT counting on you then... they'd just like to go do a something right then. Put another way... say you'd told your GF that you'd spend time with her, but 9 buds called from a bar and asked you to come on down. Would you? That's what you're doing if you go to a spur of the moment raid.
On the other hand, if the raid was planned and someone can't make it, then you MIGHT want to go. It's not your obligation just because you're GL though. And, as I said above, if that's happening a lot you need to address why people are bailing on scheduled raids.
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12-31-2007 @ 1:35PM
Atrocita said...
My boyfriend got me playing on his account before i startd my own, and he continued playing the character i made when i got my account. Therefore, at this point, we are in the same hardcore end-game guild and we both raid as much as possible, which is good. However, we are botht he exact same class and spec-- Affliction warlocks.
The problem we have, therefore, is competition issues, both with performance and with gear. He is a better player and puts out more DPS, but i am a better team player and get along with more people and tend to be more cooperative when it comes to helping the raid. This leads into problems with gear. We are both competing for the same gear, and often i will win over him because i am a better team player, and he will feel he should have one because he had higher dps.
We have to really get our feelings of anger that one naturally feels when losing out on a piece of gear under control, because when the person who won over you is not only in the same room as you but is going to bed with you tonight, it can get messy. We both try to keep that part of the game separate from our life, and if we get really upset, to go take a walk and calm down.
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12-31-2007 @ 1:39PM
Green Armadillo said...
A specific comment first: Don't make her an officer, especially if she isn't interested in being one. Giving her that role is going to look bad, especially if she doesn't really earn her keep compared to other officers. You also create chain of command issues - does she functionally outrank other officers because she has the ear of the guildmaster? Would other members of your guild be comfortable expressing concerns about her in her capacity as an officer (not necessarily "she's a horrible person", but "why did she make X decision?"). As a Guild Leader, it is your responsibility to have oversight over the other officers, even if you don't need to use that authority 95% of the time, and when the situation does come up, you're going to be in a nasty position with the appearance of impropriety even if you truthfully aren't showing any favoritism at all.
Back in the days when I raided, my (now) fiance was out of the country, so our time in game was literally the only time we had "together". As a result, it was my policy to never, under any circumstances, ditch my girlfriend during her limited gaming time to go play with other people, even if it hurt my own loot, standing in the guild, etc. (Indeed, she was most often available on farm nights, so my main was chronically undergeared compared to other characters who'd been around as long as I had, with similar playtime/attendance etc, and had to clock a lot of time in off-hour 20-man runs to try and catch up.) I just wasn't available to fill out a raid group that night, the same way I wouldn't have been available if we'd been doing something off-line.
Then again, my situation was easier to cope with, since I wasn't an officer, and it's always easier to find a balance for two things when one of them is clearly more important to you - the important one gets all the time you can manage, and the other gets whatever's left. The best advice I can offer is to communicate - both to your girlfriend and to your fellow officers. Don't assume that the way that things have been is still alright with all concerned. Maybe your fellow officers were fine with things when her main was a low level character and have more concerns now that she's competing with others for raid slots and loot. Maybe she was fine with being ditched whenever there was a run with an empty slot three years ago, but now she's wondering if she's always going to be less important than a WoW guild. You never know if you don't ask, and if you're not asking because you don't want to know, that's an answer in and of itself.
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12-31-2007 @ 1:51PM
simeon said...
Being neither an officer nor a GL, I feel that the other members of the guild have just a responsibility to respect every other guild member's choice (or officer, or GL) of what they are doing. Unless the guild has a mandatory raid attendance policy, I think any given player has the right to do other things, either IRL or in game, and for others to have unrealistic expectations is selfish in the other direction.
In the example of someone's buddies calling from the bar, the other point of view is like a bunch of guys hanging out calling their friend, whom they know is out on a date with is significant other, and yelling at him to go play wow.
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12-31-2007 @ 2:25PM
java said...
Ten Rules to live by - Significan Others, WoW, Raiding & Guilds.
1. Significant other always comes first regardless of in-game responsibilities you have.
2. Remember you are exceptionally fortunate to have a significant other enjoying the hobby you so love. Appreciate it and try to let her know it as much as possible.
3. If there is a GL/GO type conflict with the significant other, just walk from that position, its not worth it. It's hard, the guild may fall apart (mine did) but in retrospect it was the best decision I made.
4. If he/she is not into endgame so be it. Outline your nights for raiding and stick to the alloted times, if you run over that time or go additional nights (make sure he/she is cool with it and see number 2 above x10).
5. Never feel bad about saying no to a raiding even if it is because you're spending time in-game / RL with a significant other.
6. Want some private in game time, start alts don't tell anyone about it and go enjoy leveling toons. We have several alts and I enjoy learning other classes as much as I enjoy raiding, more so because we do it together.
7. Don't ever blame your significant other for not raiding, its your decision because he/she trumps your guild progression - end of story.
8. Get more WoW time by taking care of your significant others mundane ingame stuff like farming mats for the raid. That's more game time for you even if you are just farming and chatting on vent.
9. Surprise your significant other with cool in-game stuff. A cool epic/rare BOE for when he/she dings 70 or if you're rather gifted in generating gold - that epic flying mount he/she had her eye on.
10. Always remeber rule number 2.
- Java
ps. It helps having the best damn g/f ever, soxy rocks - happy new year baby...
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12-31-2007 @ 2:39PM
thunder said...
/respect
You have carefully written a spectacular personal article... It's honestly the best post to date on WoWInsider In my opinion.
I hope she likes it too. /wink
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12-31-2007 @ 3:07PM
Zumacrume said...
I'm a holy priest, and my gf is a prot warrior. Our guild has an excess of prot warriors and a need for holy priests...so we made the guild take us both, or take neither of us. after awhile we felt the raid leader didn't like us because of this (as he was another prot warrior and had the need to MT every run), so we rerolled on an rp server as a mage/rogue combo.
lesson? most people suck, stick with the rl people, especially a mate.
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