When the Call to Arms weekends first started for Battlegrounds, there were a lot of complaints about the honor junkies causing losses and generally noobing it up. The regulars were right to a point, playing Battlegrounds on non-honor bonus weekends usually means you are playing with people who know what they are doing. But, in my opinion, because both sides had honor farmers during the Call to Arms weekends, it pretty much evened out.Since Patch 2.3, we have the Battleground Daily Quests. They are great for cash, honor (if it works) and even experience if you aren't max level. They are also easy to get, since you just have to be the qualifying level of the BG in order to do the quest. You don't have to do pre-quests or collect anything -- nothing except win a BG to complete the quest.
So now, on weekdays and when other BGs have honor bonuses, questers are infiltrating the games that used to be reserved for the well-practiced BG regulars. The difference between the Daily Quests and the honor bonus weekends is that it is different by realm. During the Call to Arms weekends, everyone has the same Battleground for bonus honor. If your Daily Quest is for Warsong Gulch on your realm, the other realms in your Battlegroup have different BGs for their quests. The noobs may all be on one side, with the other filled with veteran twinks.
For example, I picked up the WSG Daily Quest on my level 19 Warrior and lost 10 times in a row. My fellow Hordies ranged across the 10 to 19 level range and many of them had no clue. In most games, a bunch of them would spend the whole game whining about losing instead of actually trying to win. The Alliance were regularly populated with level 19 twinks, whose guild names proclaimed thier WSG prowess. The process was painful. The next day, when the Daily Quest had changed to AV, I tried to win my one WSG game for my incomplete quest. Now, my team was nothing but level 19 twinks and the Allies had noobs. We won quickly and easily.
Of course, there will always be new players, just as there will always be do-nothing whiners and control freaks. There will also always be jerks who do things like ask for the flag in WSG just so they can purposely lose the game. And these people are in your Battlegroup, so you're stuck with them unless you transfer servers. But then there will just be different players dragging down your BG experience. Meet the new noobs, same as the old noobs. It's part of the fun of Battlegrounds -- you never know who your teammates are going to be. Well, except for premades. But even then, your guildies aren't necessarily the best players either. I remember joining an Alterac Valley with a partial premade of guildies from a former guild. Actual dialog:
Me: What's the plan?
Guildie: Kill stuff.
Me: Ha ha. No, seriously.
Guildie: This is supposed to be fun. If we use strategy, we might as well be in a raid.
I'd like to think that over time, most of the Daily Questers will read up on strategies or listen to their fellow PvPers and become better Battleground players. Or, if it is taking them 10 tries to complete the quest, that they will give up on the BG Daily Quests all together. No matter what, I do agree with commenter Dave, that the short term results are painful, but over time it will probably get better.
What do you think? Are Daily Questers bringing down the quality of the Battleground experience? Or do you think the influx of new BG players is welcome to bring down queue times?
Subscribe
Reader Comments (Page 1 of 2)
11-25-2007 @ 5:09PM
thecapuchin said...
While I understand the concerns of PvP veterans on the stance of noobs running into BGs on non bonus weekends, I still haven't run into much of a problem with it just yet. I like the dailies because it encourages people to do the BGs which can (and does) decrease the queue times in my Battlegroup (Retaliation).
While noobs do make things harder, it also means that those of us who are still getting used to how to win the various battlegrounds, can get and give some direction. Whining is a waste of time.
Reply
11-25-2007 @ 5:33PM
andyjay220 said...
Yeah, new people shouldn't be playing battlegrounds. It should be reserved for people who have been playing it for years. Never mind that we all once had to learn the BGs, someone else learning this game should not be able to interfere with my pwnage of non-twinks. I spent thousands of gold to make this toon, and I should be able to have a full team of similar players so we can steamroll the other team. Losing makes this game less fun. Noobs make me lose. Noobs are un-fun and should be banned.
P.S. I only buff twinks at BG start. Noobs have to learn they're not wanted in my BGs.
P.S.S. Oh yeah, I also hate the BG quests because they make me level up to the next bracket. Blizzard, stop catering to the "majority" of players and cater to ME!
Reply
11-25-2007 @ 5:47PM
Braz said...
I suspect that several factors have contributed to an increase in inexperienced players in the Battlegrounds. At the higher levels, many players are probably farming honor in anticipation of getting their S1 gear. In the lower levels people taking advantage of the faster 20-60 leveling along with new players lured in for the first time by 2.3 may make stops in the Battlegrounds.
In any case, learning the correct strategies and tactics to use in each Battleground takes time and patience, and even then winning is never guaranteed.
I welcome more players to the Battlegrounds. Those who have skill and enjoy the experience will stay, while most others will soon leave in frustration.
Reply
11-25-2007 @ 5:55PM
Ahoni said...
Actually, worse than the "noobs" are the know-it-alls who tell you what you are doing wrong, and as soon as your side falls behind leave for another battleground. Its really hard to win a competitive AB when 6-8 people leave for another battle ground when you are down 900-700. Thats not a big deficit, and easy to overcome. But some people just bail.
There should be a debuff that you get no honor if you leave one BG for another.
Reply
11-25-2007 @ 6:03PM
Umgawa said...
Cry a little more, guys. Have you ever considered the fact that you might be taking the battlegrounds too seriously, as opposed to the other players not taking it seriously enough? After all, it's just a game. No, more than that, it's a game within a game, which means people should take it even less seriously, but those who take WoW too seriously tend to take the battlegrounds even more seriously.
Don't like that level 62 guy in your game of Alterac Valley? Too bad. That rogue teammate decided to stay in stealth and watch you die? Too bad. That druid got the flag but didn't shapeshift to get out of snares? Too bad. It's their game as much as it is yours. Live with it.
Reply
11-25-2007 @ 6:20PM
Shadowisp said...
Call to Arms is random per server in your battle group... so unless every server in your battle group is by sheer luck on the same quest, it shouldnt be as noticeable as you protest above.
One thing about BG newbies... they wont be AFK :P
Reply
11-25-2007 @ 6:30PM
eric said...
@ 5
Are you sure you're not taking battleground seriously enough?!!?!?!
Reply
11-25-2007 @ 6:47PM
Gemski said...
This entire post was basically "QQ."
Reply
11-25-2007 @ 6:49PM
dpoyesac said...
Lawls @ 2 -- my favorite sarcastic comment of the day
Reply
11-25-2007 @ 6:51PM
Tuberon said...
Actually, I love it, it's reduced queue times for non-CtA battlegrounds.
AV week, and I got a dozen storm runs with
Reply
11-25-2007 @ 7:07PM
Marsh said...
They were a great thing and all the whiners are retarded. What increase in noobs? I play alliance. There's always noobs. These are daily quests done right. No 5 man attunements. And they're random. I hate doing the same quest over and over agin for gold. They make people try to win harder and they give you a motivation to get involved in pvp. And the more people involved in pvp the better imo.
Reply
11-25-2007 @ 7:09PM
Ortai said...
Speaking as one that has done BGs since their premere, I have found that atleast some of the "noobs" of late often want direction if you give it nicely. For example in WSG if I need someone to D with me I say "If a person or two could come on D with me that would be great." If you are trying to direct, then praise people when they do well, espcially healers.
For all you inexperenced in BGs, keep an eye on D for your team, you don't have to do it, just keep it in mind. So often players rush off to the next BG encounter when it is holding things, nodes in AB, towers in WSG and EotS, or preventing enemy flag caps, in WSG and EotS, that win the game.
Often the MVP of your team is not the guy with the most kills, but the one that has sat at the farm/Fel Reaver Ruins/Flag Room/Tower Point, communicated incs and prevented it from being capped.
Reply
11-25-2007 @ 8:51PM
frank said...
I like the daily quests. I play alliance and most of the time no one tries to win. As soon as we fall behind, everyone just starts farming HKs. Now, people actually care about winning. People play more D, play smarter, and follow directions. I find I win a little more often.
Reply
11-25-2007 @ 9:12PM
Adam said...
I think the reason some people complain about "noobs" in BGs is because when you get in one where everyone knows what to do and it all clicks, its a very beautiful thing...as opposed to the ones where people don't care and if you are one of the only people actually trying it's like baging your head really hard against a brick wall with steel spikes coming out of it.
I have gotten frustrated with some BGs with the most frustrating being the new AV. Horde in my battlegroup want to play it the old way with everyone just zerg rushing the general. We still win many games but when you win 98-0 you certainly don't get much honour. On the other hand my best AV since 2.3 was one where we won 585-0, and it's like heroin: you're just trying to chase that first big high.
Reply
11-25-2007 @ 9:18PM
Plethora said...
@Ortai Well said.
The best bg's are the ones where it doesn't de-evolve into people yelling at each other and being negative. I have found that even if people are negative I can usually change the attitude of the whole team by staying upbeat. Celebrate every victory large or small. Give encouragement to that lowbie priest who is trying their hardest to heal. Everyone deserves a chance and the more positive reinforcement you give them the more likely they are to learn. When a minority of the group is negative and you (the supposed vet) stays positive, people will follow...and in the end that minority will either shut up or join in the fun.
Reply
11-25-2007 @ 10:00PM
Dave said...
In my efforts to get a full set of Season1 arena gear for my new-ish 70, I've noticed that the BG's are pretty horrible at the moment.
I'm attempting to get 30 marks for WSG. It's taken me... 25 games to get 29 marks. That's 2 wins, 23 losses. Awesome. Did I mention I'm Horde, who typically wins so many BG's that everyone on the Alliance has to whine that they're just screwed all around?
I'm not going to blame it all on the dailys, because there has been enough of a recent influx of people to my server in particular to give it a 500 person queue at 7PM on a Sunday night... so there may just be an abundance of people that are legitimately new to this whole thing.. But realistically most people don't know what they're doing in the BG's.
Of all things, I've seen people adapt to AV better than anything. It's kinda weird.
To disagree with the "don't say anything in BG's" kinda comments, I've found that giving a simple reminder of the objectives and directions is helpful in most BG's. Some people legitimately don't know, or haven't been told. Others just don't care, but you can't do anything for those. Sometimes putting a single person in the right direction can turn the tide. AV is confusing, people legitimately might not understand. AB people need to be reminded that defense wins the game, fighting in packs wins the game and 1 or 2 people trying to ninja a base without calling out how many are actually defending once they go wipe there... loses games. EOTS is basically "hold two towers, get the flag a lot, stop trying to 4-cap".
Yes, you the seasoned vet may understand these things like the back of your hand. You're not the target audience, so just sit back and laugh at the newbs. To the new people, if someone in the BG seems a bit irate at what you're doing, instead of getting an attitude, just try doing what someone's directing you to do and you might win the game. If you're not sure someone's talking about you or not, assume they are and just do what they're saying anyway. Seriously!
Coordination and communication are key to winning BG's. If the /bg channel is silent, you're going to lose because nobody's helping at all and you're all just basically giving the other team a free ride. If everyone's calling out incoming attackers and such, that helps a lot more than you'd think.
Until then, i'm just going to struggle through another WSG and it's off to cry in alterac valley until I cap my honor. :(
Reply
11-25-2007 @ 11:11PM
andrea said...
What an absurd, unfair, and ego-filled post. Pure garbage. I could care less if twinks are having a "hard time" of it. I have not noticed a single change, horde side anyway, in how we win and how often. Yes, I do see some players less than *gasp* 19, 29, 39, 49, etc and we still win the majority of the time.
You can not seriously be suggesting that only those who have been playing these 3 for the last 2+ years should be the only ones in there.
Reply
11-26-2007 @ 1:35AM
Chainfire said...
I am not a hardcore pvper, I will go through spurts where I want to ignore all pve and just kill the other side. But since the new BG daily quests have arrived I've only lost the daily twice. So with all those "noob" pvpers we have won. Really stop whining, there doesn't seem to be much worthwhile in this whole article. Next it will be the daily instance quests (nonheroic) are ruining the purity of instancing.
Reply
11-26-2007 @ 2:48AM
Heartless_ said...
I would agree with you, if it wasn't for the fact that even with the BG quests, Alterac Valley is STILL the only BG that gets played regularly. It amazes me Blizzard can and will do nothing to start evening out WSG, EotS, and AB to match AV in regards to honor gained.
I pick up BG quests everyday, and if it is EotS or WSG I just forget it. If it is AV or AB, I take my chances. I see no difference, because Horde loses consistently in everything except AV regardless of what bonus weekend it is or what BG is on the daily.
Reply
11-26-2007 @ 5:20AM
rzzr said...
I look at the daily quest and if it is AV I won't take it. All the others are fine but AV is biased to level 70's whilst all the others make them have their own bracket. As I am not level 70 I prefer the other BG's.
Not sure why Blizz did this as there is a big gap between the gear you can get at 70 as opposed to 69.
Reply