So, if hunters can no longer leave combat by using FD on a boss fight, does this mean they can no longer avoid repair bills?

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Well, on the one hand I'll miss the ability of our hunters to do this in instances etc. But on the other... are there any other CC methods that can be applied to multiple mobs at once? I'm not talking Frost Nova, but things like Sap only work on one mob/player at a time.

It amuses me that with all of the buffs they got, hunters can still find something to complain about..

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I am of the opinion that being able to double/triple trap was an unintended side effect of allowing traps during combat, and could even be seen as an exploit. It has been well established that hunters operate under a one-trap-at-a-time system, and this change is just a way of getting the system back in line.

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I agree with #3 and I find it hilarious that hunters are complaining about a nerf to their solo PVE

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the Hunter Class is fine.. they will perservere

how ever Huntards are screwed.. but then again they were screwed the day they were born

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Chain trapping is easy to do, as for double trapping and triple trapping I see this as something that would take time to learn. But now that it’s gone there is just chain trapping. Meh, time goes on and things change.

As for it being an exploit? I’m not sure, because when I first looked at the tool tip I figured that it was talking about it being only one trap at one time “aimed”. Meaning you could have two things or more trapped at a time. Well I see now that I was wrong in my thinking.

And this shouldn’t be too big of a blow to hunters we will all have to change the way we trap is all. Just like everyone is changing how they Attack a hunter in PvP with the new dead zone.

Nice post BRK, I always enjoy reading them.

-Good hunting-

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Huntards couldn't double trap to begin with, and they are left unhindered by this. Huntards got boots to ranged skills so huntards have it better off now.

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I agree that the multi-trap situation was a result of allowing traps while in combat. Making this a fix, not a nerf. However, I wouldn't call it an exploit. FD to get out of combat and strip before real death to avoid repair bills, that I would call an exploit. I will miss this ability to multi-trap when solo questing and I get a bad pull. But, PvP is most likely the reason they fixed it.

To answer #1's question, yes and no. FD to come out of combat only affects boss fights, from what I have read. If this is so, yes it will stop them from FD'ing and stripping before a whipe when fighting bosses, but no it will not with a bad pull whipe on non-boss mobs. I can't think of a time I used FD for this purpose. I am an engineer, so I always used FD when a whipe was unavoidable, waited for reset and tried to use jumpers on a rez class player.

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Hunters can't leave combat to swap gear, trinkets, drink, etc, but because they have zero aggro at the end of the fight, the boss will not attack them and kill them. They aren't "out of combat" and free to perform any action, but they won't be killed if they're feigned. I can confirm 100% (I did it twice last night) that you can escape death in a wipe, though my thoughts are on saving our raid a run-back with my cables first with the side-benefit of preserving my buffs, consumables and repair bill. I make up for that "unfair advantage" by using expensive ammunition and offering repair bots for the rest of the raid with red gear. I'm not a cheap jerk and I do buy flasks, elixers and mana oil and I farm buff food and scrolls.

Double trapping was a rare and expert trick, most often used by Survival hunters, but it was still doable (though not always a good idea) for other builds. Here are my thoughts...

Chain trapping is the same as ever. It's really not a big deal for any hunter to be able to chain trap four or more times. You lay a trap, wait 30 seconds for the cooldown (traps last 1 minute) and pull/peel the mob (or delay your party's pull until your cooldown is reasonably short... use concussive shot on the peel to offset your cooldown if necessary). As soon as the mob is trapped, travel a short distance away and lay another trap quickly. As long as you don't feign and drop aggro on the trapped mob, when it breaks it will run at you and trip the 2nd trap. After the mob is in the 2nd ice block, you wait a short time for the cooldown to finish and lay a 3rd trap between it and yourself. At that point, your cooldown will likely not expire before the 3rd trap breaks and you will likely need to kite for short time until you can trap a 4th time.

Double trapping, however, means that you lay one trap down and wait 30 seconds. Then you pull a mob to that trap and lay a 2nd trap quickly thereafter. You used to be able to pull a 2nd mob into that new trap. Then you'll likely wait a few seconds, lay your 3rd trap on the ground and whichever mob breaks first will hit it. The problem with this method is that, yes you will chain trap 1 mob 2 times, but the other mob will only get trapped once before you have to kite it. You may have time to drop a 4th trap, but shortly afterwards the other mob will break and you'll be kiting again. I never really employed this method because I like to save my trap cooldowns for resists and chain trapping _reliably_.

For a survival hunter, this was very feasible. Your traps last longer, so your cooldown is less of a problem, your traps are resisted less, and you can use an ability that gets rid of your cooldowns. So you could chain trap two mobs reliably if you were good.

I never really volunteered to double trap as a BM hunter, I don't feel it was reliable enough with my spec for more than one mob, though I am very confident that I can keep one mob trapped for a couple of minutes before I'm preoccupied with kiting instead of DPSing the kill target.

This will anger many survival hunters and hurt the viability of the build in PvE, especially in heroics where this was clutch in instances like Shattered Halls with 9+ mobs in a pull. However, as many hunters as there are complaining about this, I really don't think so many Hunters were pulling this off, being an expert skill and something that was highly trustworthy only for Survival Hunters, easily the least populous spec.

I lament the loss of that possibility, but as iffy as traps can be, it will probably prevent the hubris of overconfident Hunters from wiping encounters. Does anybody know if hit rating effects trap resists? I thought I read something about that in the patch notes. In that case, any Hunter with under 8% hit (130-ish hit rating) should have been avoiding double trapping all along.

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@9

I like your post, but as a hunter, your facts are still wrong. Hunter traps do not last 1 minute, thats why you will see huntards having problems chain trapping. Traps last 20 sec, 26 if you have the talent (which I recommend for anyone doing heroics, along with the lower trap resist talent) while the CD is 30 sec. This is generally not a problem, especially if are mostly Marksmanship and have Scatter Shot. Still, as long as you start trapping ahead of the pull, chain trapping is relatively easy. Fool proof? Hardly. Remember hunters, don't do something you are uncomfortable doing, else we will continue to always be known as a bunch of idiots.

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@4 Solo pve? What? I'm pretty certain double/triple trapping was mainly used in 5 mans and to some extent, raids.

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This is a nerf, and a stealth nerf -- how kind that they didn't put it in the original patch notes.

You could never have multiple primed traps down, but once it because activated, it was no longer a trap, but the effect of the trap -- and while I haven't had the chance to try it, reports have come from hunters that this ONLY applies to the freeze trap, not the rest. Which, if it's a bug, is just a little odd, don'tcha think?

Double-trapping is of supreme value in instances, it's a great way to have emergency protection for cloth-wearers when they grab aggro. Now that's no longer an option -- they can fend for themselves while we focus on our marked targets.

It's of great use in PVE soloing, because sometimes pulls go bad and sometimes the damn pets can't keep aggro. Especially with the current INSANE pathing issues.

If it's a PVP problem, nerf it in PVP, same as the duration times for traps. But seriously? It's main application are PVE. As it is, SV is a weak enough tree, they just made it weaker -- Blizz needs to take a serious look at revamping the "utility" of the tree given the current changes.

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@10 has me misconstrued, traps last for 1 min, the effect lasts the duration you've specified. I wouldn't be much of a hunter to offer such comments if I didn't know that = )

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I don't have a hunter myself but I've never even SEEN a hunter control more than one mob at once, so I guess it won't be a huge loss after all.

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Palla, remind me never to group with you...

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#12 - I can attest that other traps can still be in effect in parallel. On big AOE scenarios I lay a frost trap on the ground, and as soon as it is tripped, I lay another frosty under the feet of one of the AOE mobs a short way away from the center, effectively increasing the area of the frost effect. This was tested on Tidewalker's Murlocs Wednesday night. On Tuesday in Karazhan, on the mana elementals leading up to Curator, I typically lay a frost trap in the cooridoor to slow down the wymrlings, and as soon as it is triggered, I lay an explosive trap at their feet for extra AOE (I get bored and think up this crap a lot). Sure enough the explosive trap stacked with the slowing effect.

So... I can reasonably confirm that only freeze traps cannot be in effect concurrently.

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Speaking as a Hunter, this change does not impact me at all. I've never needed to trap more than one mob at a time in all the time I've played, neither solo nor CCing for groups and raids.

Hunter CC in groups and raids is viable due to how long we can keep one mob busy with chain trapping. The traps don't last long enough to make a double or tripple trap worthwhile in my opinion.

As for soloing... if you actually need to trap three mobs at a time, you need to learn how to pull better.

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I have to say that I am surprised by the attitudes displayed by nonhunters on this issue.

Chain trapping and the now infamous "double trapping" was not a pvp issue, it's not a solo pve issue, it's a group pve issue. The reason hunter's are complaining is because it was our way of helping you the squishy not get killed or you the tank in your order of kills. And by helping you, it helped us get invited to groups. I have been asked on many occasions by groups I was seeking to join 'Can you chain trap or double trap?'

You didn't see "huntards" use it. They didn't know they could or couldn't time it correctly. Like effective kiting it was the cornerstone of what seperated the Hunter from the Huntard.

Now it's gone with a whimper and not a bang. In an unannounced last minute change (admitted by Neth) and not open to testing or comments.

Will I miss its passing? Sure. Will you my group member miss it more? You bet you will.

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OK, double trapping was not an exploit. Why? Simple. traps have a one minute duration during which time they can be triggered. Cooldown between setting traps is 30 seconds. Do the math.

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The main problem you are going to see here is that so many people have hunter alts, that they don't see the double trap nerf as that big of a deal. However, if you play a hunter as your main, and do any amount of heroics, you'll understand why this nerf if so painful. To people commenting that 'other classes can't CC two mobs at once' fair enough, but they can pick which mob they CC and reapply the CC (spam it) if they need to. Ours is unique in that it is non targetable and has a giant cooldown. Further, it isn't like a hunter could keep 2 mobs CC'd indefinitely, this was mostly used as a 'oh crap' button to save our healers.
Finally, yes all hunters are aware that we got buffs in other areas. But if this is the price those buffs come at, you can take um back.

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