Welcome to another edition of Build Shop! This week, we're going to examine a Rogue build (something that hasn't been done since this column began way back when). Subtlety has long been labeled as a Rogue's "utility" tree, but there are so many goodies in there... talents that buff your attack power, your agility, improvements to stealth -- the list just goes on.
Patch 2.3 is bringing lots of changes to the Subtlety tree, so it's as good a time as any to examine a build I can't wait to try out!
Patch 2.3 is bringing lots of changes to the Subtlety tree, so it's as good a time as any to examine a build I can't wait to try out!
There's a couple of exciting changes to the Subtlety tree (and other Rogue abilities) coming in Patch 2.3 -- from the Test Realm Patch Notes, we can see that Blind will no longer require a reagent, Cheat Death has been massively improved, Dirty Deeds will be increasing special attack damage against targets below 35% health, and perhaps the largest change to the Subtlety tree: Hemorrhage (Hemo) has been updated. It now deals 125% weapon damage instead of regular weapon damage, and as a result its damage modifier has been normalized, just like all other Rogue attacks. What does this mean? Well, theorycrafting tests have shown that it's doing a lot more average damage, and you no longer have to struggle to find the slowest weapon around (long time Hemo users will remember the search for weapons with speeds slower than 2.7), so you now only have to worry about finding the best weapon you can.
Also changing in the latest patch is Shadowstep, which has received a couple of improvements: range has been increased to 25 yards (from 20), it now increases the damage of any special Rogue attack by 20%, and it can be used out of stealth as well. The cooldown has been increased to 30 seconds, but I definitely think this will help rogues mobility issues somewhat. The big news here is that it can be used out of stealth and affects all Rogue damaging abilities, not just Ambush, Backstab and Garrote. Due to these changes, I'm going to examine the next build I want to try with my Rogue -- 16/3/42, as a potential replacement PvP spec.
Assassination (16 points)
- Malice (5/5) - For that extra critty goodness.
- Ruthlessness (3/3) - It no longer works on deadly throw (as of 2.3), but it's still great for all your other finishers.
- Murder (2/2) - Works on humanoids, which makes it viable for PvP, but feel free to shift these 2 points around to suit your needs.
- Relentless Strike (1/1) - Anything that helps you regenerate energy is great in my book.
- Lethality (5/5) - An extra 30% critical damage bonus on a newly buffed Hemo? Fantastic.
- Improved Gouge (3/3) - To help keep that stunlock going.
- Master of Deception (5/5) - The longer you can avoid being seen, the better.
- Camouflage (5/5) - This brings your stealth speed up to 85% run speed (from 70% base), but the real gem here is the reduced cooldown on stealth. If you have something against Camo, stick the 5 points in Opportunity.
- Dirty Tricks (2/2) - Sap uses a fair amount of your energy, and this talent halves the cost (of Blind, too), in addition to letting you use it from further away.
- Initiative (3/3) - Subtlety is all about control, and to control your opponent you need combo points. This talent will (most of the time) give you 1 extra point on your openers.
- Elusiveness (2/2) - Decreases the cooldown on Vanish and Blind. This talent, especially when combined with Preparation, means you can use these skills more than any other Rogue.
- Serrated Blades (3/3) - Armor Penetration is the hot new stat for Season 3 Rogue gear, and this talent gives you an additional 560 armor penetration, in addition to increasing the damage from Rupture.
- Dirty Deeds (2/2) - As of 2.3, this talent will increase the damage of all your special attacks against targets with less than 35% health. It will also continue to reduce the energy cost of Cheap Shot and Garrote.
- Preparation (1/1) - Instantly ends the cooldowns on many of your abilities, essentially allowing you to use all your best abilities twice in one fight.
- Hemorrhage (1/1) - Receiving some nice buffs in 2.3: it will now deal 125% weapon damage, and increases the damage of the next 10 physical attacks by 30 (instead of increasing the next 30 charges by 10, as it is currently -- the total damage from the debuff is actually the same, just done in less time)
- Deadliness (5/5) - Increases attack power by 10%. AP is very important to Hemo builds, so this just gives you more of what you need.
- Premeditation (1/1) - Adds 2 combo points to your target before you even hit them with anything. Great for starting off a long stunlock.
- Cheat Death (3/3) - Another talent that's getting improved in 2.3. The new version of Cheat Death will save you from an attack that would've killed you, and gives you 90% damage reduction for 3 seconds afterwards. The downside? This can only happen once a minute.
- Sinister Calling (5/5) - Increases your Agility by 15%. Rogues get AP, crit, dodge and additional armor from Agility, so this one is worth picking up if you're going this deep into the tree.
- Shadowstep (1/1) - Receiving a huge buff in 2.3. It will be usable out of stealth against any target within 25 yards, and will increase the damage of your next special attack by 20% (in addition to the current threat reduction). I'm hoping that this provides some much needed mobility for my Rogue.
Obviously, a good chunk of this build is based on things as they currently are on the test realms, but if things stay as they are it means some nice buffs for rogues that are already Hemo spec, and might provide some incentive for others to try out the Subtlety tree. I want to give it a shot once the patch goes live, as it certainly seems viable now, but time will tell.
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Reader Comments (Page 1 of 2)
11-06-2007 @ 5:39PM
Evil M said...
I personally am extremely excited about the new hemo changes. I think with a S2 weapon it could be a lot of fun to play with.
From a personal standpoint I imagine it will be much harder for a rogue specced PvE like myself to succeed at all against the PvP specced rogues....which is how it should be.
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11-06-2007 @ 5:46PM
Khanmora said...
I am hugely excited about the hemo change. I leveled hemo (back when there were good weaps for it /sigh Krol Blade) but went Combat Swords at 70. I am very much looking forward to going back to hemo now, although I'll probably be going with a 5/23/33 or 5/33/23.
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11-06-2007 @ 5:48PM
Sean Riley said...
Excellent! I'd been pondering how to spec my current Rogue, my only rule was that (as it fitted her RP concept best) she had to be a Subtlety rogue with Assassination as her second tree. This looks fantastic.
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11-06-2007 @ 5:55PM
Naix said...
All I can say is yes yes YES! Rogues need to be rogues. The sub tree is where that shines.
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11-06-2007 @ 6:31PM
Koskun said...
Until they put in some more, and attainable 2.8-2.9 speed weapons, Hemo will not be as useful as it was pre-TBC.
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11-06-2007 @ 7:43PM
duron said...
@5 it says hemo was normalized
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11-06-2007 @ 7:44PM
Desworks said...
Koskun, with hemo being normalised the need for 2.8 - 2.9 speed weapons has become redundant. All you need is a weapon with a nice high average damage. The 125% will do the rest.
Oh, also the new hemo adds 36 damage extra, stacked to 10, not 30. In other words, it was buffed with an extra 60-120 (depending on crits) damage per stack.
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11-06-2007 @ 8:32PM
Erika said...
I never respeced and i had 18/0/43.
http://www.worldofwarcraft.com/info/classes/rogue/talents.html?3053201050000000000000000000000000000000000005500530302301003501051
It was good for ambush damage witch i would get 2k average and then just went from there.
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11-07-2007 @ 1:42AM
Tazibah said...
I've saved up enough for 2 season 1 wepons (1 offhand 1 mainhand) along with my good S2 armour cos i need some good weapons, now this sounds nooby, but is this subtley spec for Daggers or Swords? cos Hemo sucks with daggers and Sub aint great with swords,(no backstab/ambush)
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11-07-2007 @ 4:25AM
Genoce said...
Why not +30% backstab crit? thats the skill you'll be using most of the time as dagger subtlety rogue...
Why not opportunity? +20% ambush / bs damage? -.-
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11-07-2007 @ 8:15AM
Redken said...
@ Genoce
Hemo isn't for daggers....
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11-07-2007 @ 9:56AM
Angus said...
You will still want a slow weapon.
Hemo may be normalized to always do the same %AP boost, but the weapon is still important here.
1.6 weapon with same DPS as a 2.6 makes this DPS by hitting more often for less damage. Well, Hemo makes it attack again, the higher damage of the weapon means it is still doing a lot more damage, even if it is not getting more bonus AP.
Windfury and Stormstrike work the same way. Shaman are constantly looking for 2.6 or slower weapons for the off-hand. You folks go for the main hand, which has some more options there.
I suggest getting into AV, racking up 16K and then getting either the S1 fist or the S1 mace. The fist has a bigger range of damage with a higher top end, and the mace is a little more average. Get itemrack, and set up a hotkey to switch your weapon so you can do the backstabs and other "dagger" moves and then immediately switch to your hemo weapon after the move.
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11-07-2007 @ 10:50AM
Brandstone said...
No Ghostly Strike? With Hemo and Ghostly strike this sort of build rocks with any decently slow weapon.
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11-07-2007 @ 2:22PM
Chris Jahosky said...
@13
Since Hemo will be a 125% weapon damage, normalized attack as of 2.3, I can't think of a reason to Ghostly Strike (a 125% weapon damage, normalized attack) that costs an additional 5 energy.
In PvP, the additional dodge might be useful against other rogues, but that's about it. You definitely wouldn't want to use it against a Warrior (why make it easier for them to use Overpower?), and since they are especially prevalent in Arenas, I'm leaving it out in my own build.
Feel free to incorporate it into your spec, especially if you're focusing more on PvE.
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11-07-2007 @ 3:59PM
LostOne said...
With 2.3 I might have to dust off my 60 rogue and respec to Hemo. She's currently combat.
I'd love to see an article from you in a few weeks with how you're liking this build after 2.3 goes live.
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11-08-2007 @ 7:24AM
kromis said...
Great article. I've been looking at different builds but I really want to stick with daggers AND use the Sub tree. I really think focusing on the combat tree is oxymoronish for a rogue. Are there any builds I could use?
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11-08-2007 @ 9:32AM
Brandstone said...
@14 Yeah, it's negligible in PvP, but everyone has to PvE for gold, and one TP isn't going to break the bank. 0/16/45 is my personal choice for a good mix of PvP and PvE. Riposte helps against those Arms warriors, and Precision lets ya ignore that much more Hit Rating. It's all about how ya want to play though. ;)
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11-08-2007 @ 1:55PM
Stephi_the_Rogue said...
I've been sub spec'd since way before the expansion. People seem to look down on it, but I don't understand why as I can typically out-DPS any combat rogue and I have a nice advantage to CC in instances.
I look forward to the improvements. We sub's deserve it for putting up with the abuse about our build.
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11-14-2007 @ 3:23PM
Tyler said...
I re-spec'd once the patch landed, and I must say that I love hemo! I do great damage and survivability is great. I do a lot of solo work and it seems to be working out great. Thanks for the post! Let me know what you think of it!
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11-14-2007 @ 3:23PM
Ayatsumi said...
@18
Sub outdps most combat rogues? SS or it didn't happen.
I can pretty much guarantee you're not going to outdps *good* combat rogues, esp if you're raiding. You might be able to keep up in 5-mans, but I'd bet hard gold coins that's where it ends, and keeping up is a lot diff than outdps'ing.
Sub is a great build, don't get me wrong - but it's a single target DPS build geared on burst damage and lots of combo points / energy spends. I'd seriously love to see you compete with a decently geared combat swords rogue and hold that claim.
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