It's time once again to celebrate our mageness with Arcane Brilliance, and this time we're going where I certainly have not gone before: the PTR. I finally got my character transfers to go through, and my immediate thought was to slip on into the PTR and check out how the changes to mage spells and talents affected my character with the addition of Patch 2.3. A lover of experiments, I figured one was in order, and so happily spent the morning blasting things in the name of gaming science.
The parameters of said experiment were the following: I used the same spec on both the PTR and the live server, and decided that for simplicity's sake I would record data on three separate types of spell damage: using only Fireball, using only Scorch, and using my normal spell rotation. Now, you'll notice that my spec is a basic fire spec, newly reclaimed after some time spent as a blended POM/Pyro mage. I have decent gear, not the best, not the worst. I would say that I wear middle-of-the-road items, some Tier 4, Spellstrike and Spellfire, and the enchants and gems I have are also of the meh category. They aren't terrible, but I haven't had the opportunity to deck out this mage with all the snazzy +12 spell damage gems I would like. So the following are the experiences of a mage with some lower-end raiding gear, a fire spec, and a curious nature.
With those boundaries set, I first tumbled on out to the Dark Portal to see what I could do against the demons flooding the steps there. I found that it was a bit challenging blasting away at them, simply because I was competing for their hit points with the NPCs around me, and I would invariably either pull aggro or they would die too fast to get a clear idea of how my spells were damaging them. This challenge in mind, I got the following numbers while I was there:
PTR Server
Fireball only: Non-critting spells ranged from 1937 and 2407 spell damage, and Critting spells from 2908 to 3826.
Scorch only: Non-critting spells ranged from 804 to 1037 and those that crit landed between 1216 and 1537 spell damage to the target.
Spell rotation (Fire blast, 5 Scorch, 4 Fireball): DPS ranged between 553.5 and 892.8.
Live Server
Fireball only: Non-critting spells ranged from 1400 to 2168 spell damage, and Critting spells from 2000 to 3305.
Scorch only: Non-critting spells ranged from 818 to 987 and those that crit landed between 1259 and 1504 spell damage to the target.
Spell rotation (Fire blast, 5 Scorch, 4 Fireball): DPS ranged between 591.6 and 1093.5.
Now I looked at these numbers and wondered if the lack of variation was caused by the aggro challenges or if they were valid as they stood. In order to further satiate my curiosity, I decided to pay a visit to every caster's best friend, Dr. Boom. While there I encountered a couple more mages out testing their skills. One in particular was kind enough to talk to me about her experiences so far, the lovely Barbs of Dath'remar. Through the nifty addition to the inspect UI I was able to see she had almost the exact same spec as I did. Her gear was better than mine, and so her DPS was significantly higher. She was finding that she too was doing about the same DPS on the PTR as on the live server. We grouped and spent the next hour happily frying Dr. Boom to a crisp. These are the numbers I logged from that session:
PTR Server
Fireball only: Non-critting spells ranged from 1985 and 2448 spell damage, and Critting spells from 2974 to 3826.
Scorch only: Non-critting spells ranged from 915 to 1023 and those that crit landed between 1362 and 1515 spell damage to the target.
Spell rotation (Fire blast, 5 Scorch, 4 Fireball): DPS ranged between 674.4 and 824.3.
When I bid my new friend adieu and hopped back onto the live server to blast Dr. Boom, these are the numbers I found:
Live Server
Fireball only: Non-critting spells ranged from 1819 to 2015 spell damage, and Critting spells from 2000 to 3305.
Scorch only: Non-critting spells ranged from 865 to 1037 and those that crit landed between 11404 and 1539 spell damage to the target.
Spell rotation (Fire blast, 5 Scorch, 4 Fireball): DPS ranged between 450.0 and 661.0.
I realize that these are only the results of my own practical experiment into spell damage, and I had only my own hand as a recording device rather than any information gathering mod. I find that my spell damage is about the same on the live server and the PTR, but I have read in a couple of places that mathematically there is an increase to DPS, particularly for Fire and Frost mages. I found very little change in the numbers I was hitting, but that is not taking into account the stopcasting addition to the gameplay. Where I was able to cast between 4-5 fireballs at the Dark Portal demons on the live server, on the PTR I was hitting them with between 6-9. Even if the spells are doing the same amount of damage, being able to cast the spell more times means you will do more damage to the mob overall. There was even a trick I read about where mages were binding their scorch spell to their mouse wheel, and getting amazing results. I am temped to try that out myself once the patch goes lives.
In the end I look at my experiment as a success, if only for the fact that I will go into the game after Patch 2.3 with both eyes open. I had expected a huge increase to my DPS, and there really was none. I realize that I did not take into account the changes to
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Reader Comments (Page 1 of 2)
10-20-2007 @ 7:54PM
Amanda Rivera said...
Wej:
Well, to be honest, I am just returning to full fire after some time in the world of PoM/Pyro, so I am still experimenting with spell rotation. I caught myself at least once slipping into my old spell rotation and had to chant "No AM, scorch, girl, scorch!"
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10-20-2007 @ 8:06PM
Juliah said...
I just want to know if Tear 4 is the emo version of Tier 4? *grins playfully*
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10-20-2007 @ 8:10PM
Amanda Rivera said...
Ack Juliah!
Well, you know, I have been feeling rather emotional about this patch. I suppose it's showing up in my homonyms. Thanks for letting me know, I'll fix it tut suite.
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10-20-2007 @ 8:16PM
gharr said...
You say there isn't a DPS increase?
Did you look at your own numbers?
PTR:
Spell rotation (Fire blast, 5 Scorch, 4 Fireball): DPS ranged between 674.4 and 824.3.
Live:
Spell rotation (Fire blast, 5 Scorch, 4 Fireball): DPS ranged between 450.0 and 661.0.
Your PTR low end DPS is higher than your Live server top end.
Or is 674 DPS (low end PTR) not higher than 661 DPS (High end LIVE)? You gained somewhere around 200 DPS.
Please explain how you feel this isn't an increase? How much were you expecting?
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10-20-2007 @ 8:22PM
Dave said...
As interesting as it may be to plenty of people to know how well the cookie cutter boring fire mage spec works on the PTR, how about arcane or frost specs?
IMO, the coefficient changes helped frost a lot, and I'd be willing to be (can't test it much myself) that an arcane/frost or a full frost build is going to be comparable to the fire mage with the right gear.
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10-20-2007 @ 8:24PM
Amanda Rivera said...
Gharr:
I found that the spells were hitting about the same on both servers, and sometimes significantly less on the PTR than on the live server. As I said before the big change I saw was in the spellcasting mechanics, and how fast spells were being cast. I see this as being the major factor in the difference in the DPS numbers. I wasn't doing more damage, I was casting more spells.
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10-20-2007 @ 8:27PM
Amanda Rivera said...
Dave:
As you say, you are not able to test an arcane/frost spec, and much like you, I am unable to test a spec that I do not possess. For the purposes of this experiment I tested based on my current spec. No doubt information on other specs would be equally if not more interesting, but alas we work with what we have.
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10-20-2007 @ 8:44PM
anon said...
maybe i'm slightly ignorant but how is this not a nice increase to your DPS? granted your PTR scorch was lower than your live, but your fireball and spell rotation were both significantly higher based on your Dr. boom test.
whether its from faster casting or harder hitting, more dps is more dps.
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10-20-2007 @ 8:48PM
Heilig said...
Except that you're a journalist (kinda) and it only costs 50 G to re-spec and test the others, too. You're not locked into fire, you know.
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10-20-2007 @ 8:56PM
astatine said...
I'm more interested in crit rates. I have a frost mage and did some testing on live and PTR using recount. I used the same spec, same gear and ran through the same group of mobs. My damage output was higher on the PTR, but my crit rate was much lower - about 30% on live compared to about 20% on PTR.
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10-20-2007 @ 10:15PM
Melenor said...
Just in case people have forgotten the patch notes: only fireball and frostbolt coefficients have changed. That's why the scorch/fire blast numbers are all similar.
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10-20-2007 @ 10:32PM
Wulfhere said...
50g a respec on live = 150g to spec arcane, then frost, then back. I don't see why we'd expect Amanda to do that when we'd never do it ourselves.
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10-20-2007 @ 10:49PM
Dave said...
Pony up the cash for a few respecs. That's what the PTR is for, basically. It's not like you're going to save your money for the AH on the PTR...
It'd be nice to hear from the perspective of a normal person, rather than attempt to wade through the endless overanalyzing you get from the Elitist Jerks posters who only really compare output in top level gear, not the stuff that most people actually use. I know that even basic theorycrafting is beyond the reach of most people, but I think that these class specific posts would do a lot of benefit to a lot of people if there was some kinda scientific analysis to at least help school people in the idea that maybe what their class leader in their guild tells them isn't necessarily the most correct thing all of the time.
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10-20-2007 @ 10:54PM
Dave said...
I wish you could edit posts, that'd be my next wishlist for things here...
The point is that it's an article on a fairly major website that a whole bunch of people read, and if you're going to be a semi-serious journalist you really should make an effort at being above and beyond what "most people" would to in my opinion.
Surely the mighty hand of AOL can make up some compensation for their reporting team to respec a few times on the live server as well to really get into it, but I think just an analysis of how close the damage is JUST on the PTR between arcafrost/arcafire/fire/frost builds happen to be would be sufficient to show whether or not the changes are significant. I mean it's pretty clear cut right now that fire is the business until you get to a certain level of +dmg and frost comes in a distant third no matter how you spec it. I'd just like to see a bit more depth to the idea and see how well they compare to each other on the PTR, not necessarily how they relate to their live specs right now.
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10-21-2007 @ 12:12AM
Samus said...
"As I said before the big change I saw was in the spellcasting mechanics, and how fast spells were being cast."
Please explain this, as there are no changes to spellcasting mechanics that I could find in the 2.3 patch notes.
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10-21-2007 @ 12:16AM
Samus said...
I take it back, listed under general:
" * Client spell cast requests are now sent to the server even if your player is already casting another spell. This eliminates the need for /stopcasting in macros to compensate for latency. "
However, you said you used a /stopcasting macro anyway, so why is your DPS different?
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10-21-2007 @ 12:48AM
Arturis said...
An excellent question, Samus. I blame the pygmy gnomes. I'm certain thats the cause of the DPS variance. They fear the number 23, and since this is patch 2.3, its like their version of Armageddon. So naturally they are going to run amuck and cause all sorts of bizarre irregularities in pretty much every aspect of Azerothian life.
Damn pygmy gnomes.
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10-21-2007 @ 3:42AM
Socordia said...
Why would anyone who hasn't spent any talent points in "Molten Fury" in a 10/48/3 spec write a column about mages and mages' DPS anyway?
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10-21-2007 @ 4:44AM
kerrizor said...
I'm curious, Amanda, what the answer to anon @9 posed.. I see the same numbers they are, and I'm not sure how its /not/ an increase in DPS.
...also, for tracking dps and damage ranges, I'm sure you know there's a number of really thorough add-ons that could help you, Recount being the foremost of them.
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10-21-2007 @ 5:57AM
Swain - Magtheridon said...
I don't feel like the author knows much about pveing mages and the changes 2.3 brings.
Firstly you can't make a reasonable average calculation without hitting 500+ fireballs at least, due to amount of rolls and randomness decides how much it'll hit for, and thats not possible to calculate without meter tools.
Secondly why to calculate scorch damage when change (dmg tax removal) is only coming to the fireball and frostbolt?
Third, 5x scorch-> 4x fireball-> fireblast is not the ordinary spell rotation we use. We use more like 8x fireball and 1x scorch on bosses.
Lastly a good theorycrafter would already calculate how much would a %10+ base dmg increase on a fireball would affect an ordinary spell rotation's dps. Sadly im not one of them.
I however want to thanks the author for giving me at least an idea how our fireballs will be like in 2.3.
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