Far be it from me to play guild expert, that's Scott's job, and he does it brilliantly. I am so far in need of guild advice that I take it wherever I can, and when I read the Priestly Endeavors article on Guild Issue Resolution, I found so much of worth for me personally I knew our readers should know about it. Yes, it was written a while ago, but good advice never goes stale.
As Kirk puts it, there are three major complaints that players have when they talk about the guild drama they've encountered with their previous guilds. "I never get any loot," they say. "They waste my time," can be heard echoing off the guild bank walls. "No one ever helps me," the crowd bemoans. Each of these is a major sticking point with guild members, and if you as the Guild Leader can do anything to avoid these big three, you'll go a long way toward creating a content guild populace. The loot issues he suggests can be mostly resolved with a good loot distribution system, but not everything can be handled by organization.Another step toward ultimate group happiness connects the issue of loot with the problems people have with getting those within the guild to help them run instances and do quests. If you as a leader allow space in your schedule for "gearing up the guild" nights, those who need better loot will get it while at the same time receiving support from the guild leadership to help them progress in their quest completion.
My favorite suggestion in his article refers to setting up a specific night when people can convene to get their gear enchanted, their gems cut, their swords made. Creating a guild bazaar of sorts will not only make the players feel supported, it will also ensure that the group is decked out as best as they can be to face whatever challenges you have set for them, be it instances or raids. Remember to resist the urge to schedule every minute of available play time; giving guild members time to do what they wish will keep them from getting 'overworked' guild-wise.
When it comes to time Kirk recommends that rigidity be your policy. If people are wandering into raids late, that irritates the group. Set hard and fast rules for attendance, and the group will thank you for it. When you don't tolerate slacking, the slacking stops, especially when guild members understand it is meant for the good of the group.
All-in-all there is so much wisdom here I can feel my head expand just retelling it, and I am sure there are plenty readers out there that can attest to the value of this advice. Do you have any suggestions for avoiding the big three of guild drama?
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Reader Comments (Page 1 of 2)
10-09-2007 @ 1:21PM
robodex said...
People who complain "omgz nobody helps me!" are idiots. People pay the same $15/month as you do, so if they don't want to waste their time doing something then they don't have to.
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10-09-2007 @ 1:54PM
Daghol said...
@ #1...
You must be well respected in your guild with that kind of attitude.
Isn't the point of a guild to play the game together? Helping out your guild mates is part of that.
While I don't like to spend all my time doing it, helping a lower level guildie run through an instance is actually pretty fun.
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10-09-2007 @ 2:00PM
Mixx said...
@1 - What guild are you in? I want to be sure to stay clear........
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10-09-2007 @ 2:01PM
brent said...
The nobody helps me one is usually indicative of a player that isn't going to last anyway.
It can be frustrating grinding rep at times but if you are at that point there is usually enough to still do in the interim.
The worst is "noone is helping me get gold for my flying mount." I've seen that a few times... QQ
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10-09-2007 @ 2:10PM
DavidC said...
A) Nobody helps me!!!
Maybe because you don't help anybody else? I generally hear that non-sense from the "high maintenance" guild members that only think of themselves.
Just cause you get invited to a guild, don't expect everyone to be at your beck and call. Most of the guild members already in the guild have helped every Tom, Dick and Harry run Blood Furnace till their eyes bleed.
Matter of fact, long time guild members generally cringe when new members get added cause almost always, the first words out of their mouths are: "Looking for Help with X, Y, Z". Instead of saying: "Anybody need help with an instance/quest?".
B) I never get any loot!!
If you joined a guild to get PHAWT LEWTZ you joined for the wrong reason. Loot is a by product of progression. Help a guild progress, and you will get loot.
Frankly, if all a player wants / care about is loot, I would just as well have that person quit now and let me replace them with somebody that cares about the journey.
C) All they do is waste my time!!
You mean waste your time trying to get a raid formed? Maybe they are having a hard time getting enough players involved cause they are all too burnt out cause they helped you run blood furnance till their eyes bleed and you needed on every drop cause you need mats to level enchanting (form of loot whoring).
ie: Get rid of the bottom feeding self-focused emo's loot whores and might attract players for progression and get stuff done :-)
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10-09-2007 @ 2:10PM
Zoidfarb said...
There's a big difference between the guy asking "can someone help me with" and the guy spamming "Can someone run me through ". Personally the first thing I do usually when I log in every night is see if anyone wants to run an instance and usually have a group for something within 15 minutes and in that time I'm currently doing my repeatable brewfest quest so I'm not missing much in between.
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10-09-2007 @ 2:35PM
Dave said...
wow.
"I never get any loot,"
You're free to go. Nobody will miss you, you're probably going to be the first person to cause drama over any significant piece of loot even IF you get loot on a regular basis. What you really mean when you say this is "other people are getting loot and it's all about ME ME ME and I don't like that some other Rogue gets a great weapon before me because I'm better!" Goodbye loot whore!
"They waste my time,"
A potentially valid complaint, but my experience is that this person isn't interested in teamwork. They're often the rogue or warrior who wants to always rush into battle, regardless of the needs of the rest of the group to prepare. While I'll agree at any time that the key to any successful guild is to come prepared and dedicated for the entire time you're there... I mean honestly do you totally believe the grass is greener elsewhere? If so, you're again free to go. You probably won't be missed, because you're probably a whiner.
"No one ever helps me"
Helps you what? Level your alt? Twink your rogue? Give you free enchants, free loot, or anything free you can find? Play BG's with you when it's not BG weekend? If you're in a raid guild, stop expecting things like this. If you're in a leveling guild or a non-raid guild and they're not offering to help out when you ask (you are asking, right? Not just idling around and waiting for someone to offer "hey guys, i'm running people through WC today who's in!" right?) you may be in a bad guild. Or people may not like you for whatever reason, which is basically the same idea.
Overall, my experience in this game has found the vast majority of people to be impatient and loot-centric. These complaints don't really seem to deviate from the overall profile of people in the game. Most of them also tend to blame everything on everyone else at the same time... which is never going to get anywhere.
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10-09-2007 @ 2:42PM
Freehugz said...
gkick people that complain about all of these problems and you'll see your guild doing much better.
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10-09-2007 @ 2:58PM
rick gregory said...
Interesting link, but he sounds WAY to schedule oriented.
1) Loot. See above comments. Buh-bye.
2) No one helps me. Aside from the emo whiners, there are the people who... a) ask once or twice in chat, then switch to alts or log, b) people who don't use the guild tab in Social. Gee, of 30 people on, 25 are in instances... um... c) don't think who they need and the whisper people individually. Personal requests > general requests, d) play during off times.
Wasting time. I give people 10 minutes past raid start time, then I whisper a replacement. If you have a 5 man group together and one person keeps saying "I need a bit more time" find another and kick them. He's 100% right on this - don't tolerate it. But the whole process he uses is too complex. Set the expectation that when you have 5 mans together everyone goes to th e instance. Raids? Everyone should be online at least 15 mins beforehand, be repaired and have need consumables.
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10-09-2007 @ 2:58PM
Jess said...
The "nobody helps me" was recently dicussed in my guild and we agreed that the best option for getting help is to be polite about it and understand that asking for help at say 2 in the morning or during a raid will not result in much help. Or that maybe people get tired of running an alt through deadmines or doing the 1,000th black morass run. But we try to help and be there for one annother.
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10-09-2007 @ 3:07PM
Caribbean said...
@1 It is people like you that makes a guild name bad. Good attitude champ.
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10-09-2007 @ 3:15PM
Dan said...
"Nobody ever says hello when I log in" is also popular... /gquit
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10-09-2007 @ 3:19PM
Ortai said...
So no one can have a legit complaint about help or loot? Is that what I am reading from you all? I have never had that problem personally but SOMETIMES they have legit beefs. Oh, if you think raiding is about progression and not loot, you are fooling yourself. If you need loot for progression and deny others loot you are hampering their progression.
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10-09-2007 @ 6:15PM
wuy3 said...
I use to drop everything I'm doing and go help people run instances the second someone says "need tank for ???". Stopped that recently cause I found out I was being used and got nothing back. Very few people step forward when I ask for help and I basically have a blacklist of those who are selfish. No wonder they complain in gchat "ohhh why won't anyone help me" Duhhh all you do is take take take and don't give back. Most of them are kids who have no concept of reciprocal rewards. Whenever you message those people asking for help its always either dailys or I gotta log.
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10-09-2007 @ 7:34PM
Delta said...
My .02
"I never get any loot"
QQ. Seriously. The game is meant to be played, and loot is earned by playing the game. Again, this is a facet of the "gimmme gimme" generation of kids who aren't interested in putting any time or effort into the game and helping others, they just expect the rewards to be given to them. I never complain about loot in a guild or group, because that is pretty much your one-way ticket to being kicked and/or ignored.
"They waste my time"
This can be somewhat valid when related to the above, but mostly of the people who feel that their time is being wasted by idiocy. I am guilty at least once of leaving a PuG in Sunken Temple because each of the people in my group had no idea what they were doing and were fucking around and dying. If you don't want to do the instance or can't get on the same page with everyone else, don't waste people's time. After leaving I joined a friend's run through BRD and got through it and had some fun. Time is important to some people, especially (and I know this will ignite from flames) casuals, people who have other commitments and other things to do and can't sit around waiting a half hour for people to get ready for a 5-man instance. If you ain't ready, bow out, don't waste other's times, especially if it's your Guildmates running you through.
"No one ever helps me"
This is completely valid despite any other saying, in a game where group work and teamwork play an important role, if you need help and no one is offering it, you might need to find a new group who does. Of course if you are not helping then that is your fault they aren't helping you, but one reason I am more of a soloist is because finding people can be tough work often, especially on my low pop Horde server where most people are either low level alts or raiding mains.
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10-09-2007 @ 8:16PM
Pook said...
Goodness how negative are you ppl.. Complaints are sometime legitimate the fact that you all react like this is probably the cause of some of these problems.
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10-09-2007 @ 8:49PM
Freejack said...
I hear this a lot: "Who wants to run me through VC?"
I don't "want" to, I got things to do to improve my character. Should I drop everything to run you through for little more than a 'kthx'? I've come to the conclusion that there are just too many children playing WoW that have no concept of how to work for something, or pay for something, or even ask nicely for a favor. They also have no idea that time equals money. If they want something they just go "Mommy, I want to go Disneyland" or "Daddy, I want $20.00" and more than likely this works for them. So translated to WoW it becomes "Give me gold pleez" and "Will somebody run me through Stockades".
Now if a person comes to me and says, "Hey, I got four of us need to run this instance, if you have time could you help us get thru it?" I'd be much more inclined to say yes. Don't ask me if I want to quest with you in a zone that's 20 levels below, where I solo'd every quest there on my own and have no desire to revisit that drudgery. Instead, If you're having a particularly hard time completing a specific quest, I'd be glad to fly over and assist so you can move along to other things.
Remember, time has a value. To ask someone to give you theirs for no gain is asking A LOT. If they grant you this favor be sure to express your gratitude and understand their sacrifice. The best way to pay it back is to pay it forward.
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10-09-2007 @ 10:23PM
Sergai said...
A beautiful skill I have learned from my GL. It tends to look like this
Brat: Complain, whine, complain
Brat has been kicked from the guild
GL: Anyone else have something to say
works every time
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10-10-2007 @ 12:16AM
Moshnerd said...
Some of my guildies needed bronze tubes for a quest today. So, my enterprising draenei engineer worked his magic and made them some tubes.
Did it take like 30 seconds out of my WoW time? Yes.
But they appreciated it, and I'm sure they'll pay me back in one way or another soon enough.
People need to relax and stfu with all the "OMG I PAY MONIES 4 DIS!" attitude. No one is MAKING you play WoW. If you want to play a game where you are in it just for yourself, go play a single player RPG.
In a single-player RPG, you don't need groups to complete dungeons, farming gold is usually easier (especially because there is no competition.) In all seriousness, if you're worried about "wasting" your time while gaming, play a single player game.
I know for me, the whole point of paying is for the experience I get playing with others.
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10-10-2007 @ 8:17AM
Takandja said...
We, the Theramore Yacht Club, are a tightly knit guild with some 20 accounts. We manage 2 intstance runs a week, mainly to get people attuned and to get the drops they need. We never pug, it's always in guild. In addition, we rotate guild leadership every month, the only requirement beign to have a 70 character. It's not easy to get in, but the rewards of being friends as well as guildmates are immense.
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