Every Monday Scott Andrews contributes Officers' Quarters, a column about the ins and outs of guild leadership.
You've tried to run 10- or 25-player dungeons, but you just can't manage to find a night where enough guild members are available. Your recruiting efforts have fallen short. You've got a bunch of unhappy members burned out on Heroics and daily quests, itching to move on to new content. What do you do? You do what any corporation does when its own employees aren't quite up to the task ahead of them: You outsource. You find someone else to do half the work. You cooperate with another business. It doesn't have to be a deal with the devil. You both get something out of the arrangement, and everybody keeps their job. That's the essence of a guild alliance, and such agreements can turn into a lucrative opportunity -- or a total nightmare.
There's a bit of a stigma attached to this concept. We've all heard the worst-case-scenario stories about guilds falling apart because the other guild recruited all the talented members and skipped town. That can certainly happen. But if your back is to a wall, and you can't do the content people want to see, then you're in danger of losing all of your most talented members anyway.
However, let's not approach it from such a negative angle. There are thousands of players in smaller Warcraft guilds who could never abandon the friends they've made, but they also feel like they have to sacrifice their dreams of facing Nightbane or Gruul or Illidan in order to stay in the guild they love. If you are the GL of a guild like this, you owe it to your members to at least explore the possibility of an alliance.
If you're a regular reader of this column, you know in the past I've made comments about alliances. It's very difficult to find one that works -- some say impossible. But it's not impossible. I've seen it happen on my server, and I've been part of them. If you strike gold and find one that really works for you, it can be a huge boon to you and your members. So let's talk about how to do it the right way.
Compatibility
Finding a guild to raid with is a lot like finding a partner. Will your alliance be like Brad Pitt and Angelina Jolie or like Pamela Anderson and Kid Rock? You won't know until you give it a try. It's hard to say until you work with another guild whether you're best suited for people who are very similar in disposition or quite different. Sometimes a laid-back, relaxed guild can benefit from another guild's urgency and passion to excel, or vice versa.
You can't quantify chemistry, but you can figure out if your members have anything in common. Age is a big consideration here. If the average ages of your guilds are 20 years apart (like Tom Cruise and Katie Holmes), you might run into some difficulties. But the biggest factor by far is your individual goals. If one guild is content to complete their Tier 4 sets, but the other eventually wants to fight on Mount Hyjal, you need to know that up front. Along with that comes what each of you want out of the alliance. Do you see this as a long-term, committed relationship? Or is it a fling to help you both build confidence, learn encounters, and spur new recruits to join up?
(My humble apologies for the gag-inducing links.)
Communication
It's the cornerstone of any good relationship. I highly suggest setting up a separate chat channel for the officers of both guilds. Don't use raid chat or your VoIP and put sensitive topics on display for all members to see. Be discreet. I also recommend establishing a private forum on one or both of your guilds' sites where officers can post and discuss crucial information.
These two outlets can help you resolve conflicts without raising a ruckus. Also, if you have a problem with a specific member of the other guild, it's much better to approach his or her officers privately about the situation rather than whispering the person directly. Let their officers handle their members. Never attempt to discipline a member of the other guild.
If you're struggling with an encounter, talk about why the wipe happened without resorting to blanket statements like "Your guild isn't geared enough" or "Your healers suck" -- even if it's true. Pinpoint a specific issue and be respectful when describing it. At the same time, keep an open mind about the other guild's ideas and criticisms. Even if they're barking up the wrong tree with a certain strategy, it shows courtesy to at least try it their way once before declaring that it won't work.
Finally, it's never a bad thing to encourage members to socialize. Make sure your members know about the other guild's site and vice versa. You can also establish a mutual chat channel available to all members of both guilds.
The Home Front
It may be obvious, but don't forget about your own members! Feel them out for how much they like or dislike the other guild. Is everyone behind the alliance or just your own officers and class leaders? As much as communicating with the other guild is important, it is doubly so for your own people. If you find out about a problem only because no one signed up for a raid, it's too late.
That's it for this week. Stay tuned for Part 2 next Monday, when I'll discuss leadership issues, loot rules, and more!
/salute
Send Scott your guild-related questions, conundrums, ideas, and suggestions at scott.andrews@weblogsinc.com. You may find your question the subject of next week's Officers' Quarters!
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Reader Comments (Page 1 of 1)
9-24-2007 @ 11:32AM
Dcruize said...
Since merging with another guild with a similar situation to us (25man problems, us wiping on Gruul), in three weeks we've gone to killing Magth and downing 2 SSC bosses. Without the merge we would have fallen apart, no doubt about it. Instead of collapsing, we've managed to keep our social group together and also make progress in the endgame.
The increase in available players has also meant that the more casual people in the guild are able to get groups for Kara, heroics, PVP and even boosting alts. It's a win-win situation as far as I'm concerned :)
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9-24-2007 @ 11:42AM
Golgothen said...
Great article and very good suggestions. Our guild (PainTrain) just did TKTE last night w/ SolPolaris and it went very well. It was all our first night in and we got to VoidReaver and tried twice to down him to no avail. We cleared all trash very quickly but the reaver is one hell of a fight. Props to our GM and raid leader. Since nobody had been before he had been studying the pulls and fight strategies for days and he did a wonderfull job explaining everything and making sure we didn't wipe after each mob. It was my first experience in a 25 man raid and for someone to lead a raid that large, you have to be very patient and kind and our GM far surpassed any expectations I had of that raid going well. Fine job!
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9-24-2007 @ 11:48AM
him said...
Just today I left my guild because of age difference. I'm 36, 80% of the guild were either 15 or 16 (I didn't know this at the start) and, even if people don't like to say it, it can cause problems. I politely asked one 15yo to please stop spamming and begging for boosts as it would make him look silly and people would get tired of him. His response? copy it into /g and make out I wanted him out of the guild. Sheesh. And I was being polite!
I don't know but I find the majority of "kids" (apologies) just don't want to do the work for themselves. They don't want to look at wowhead or thottbot, they don't want to attempt a quest that maybe they could do, but they'd rather have a 70 along and so on.
Strangely, having played WoW on USA and EU servers, I find the european "kids" are worse.
But I do know they arn't all like that I do want to point out that I'm not trying to give all 15 yo's a bad name.
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9-24-2007 @ 12:08PM
Dabura said...
@2 Erm, VR is not a hard fight, first time my guild got to him we got him to 20%~, and a friends guild killed him in 1 shot, so you must be nubs :P
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9-24-2007 @ 12:23PM
Ryan said...
@4 Yea, VR is pretty easy as far as the fight mechanic. But if you're undergeared, you're just not going to make the enrage timer.
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9-24-2007 @ 12:47PM
Randy said...
Did anyone else find reading post #2, #3, and #4 in that order funny?
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9-24-2007 @ 1:08PM
Richard said...
VR isn't too hard of a fight, if your casters (who are probably used to sitting in one spot during boss fights and spamming spells, WHILE chatting) can get used to the idea of MOVING from the orbs.
Also, it really is a DPS race. If you can't beat 10% of his HP down each and every minute, forget it. You should be gunning for 12% each minute, to compensate for a screw up.
Maybe you can last another 20-30s after enrage, but he really does go hogwild at the 10min mark.
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9-24-2007 @ 1:46PM
Direphoenix said...
Fans of the webcomic Penny Arcade are probably already familiar with the Penny Arcade Alliance. What we have on the Dark Iron server is an Alliance of 11 guilds (yes, 11 Penny Arcade fan guilds) with probably over 3000 characters across them, that have been working fairly cohesively together for over the past 2 years. We have several cross-guild raid groups within this alliance, and it works out quite well for not only forming more cohesiveness across it, with more people from each guild interacting with each other on a regular basis; but also allowing for the freedom of raiding with a group that fits your raiding needs and not having to /gquit to go to a "raiding guild" and leave your friends from your "home guild" that may have different raiding needs than you.
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9-24-2007 @ 1:56PM
Slayblaze said...
Guild alliances can indeed be very helpful with the right leadership, although they are needed a lot less now that the days of the 40-man raids are over. Pre-bc they were a lot more common - I don't see near as many any more, but you see a lot more smaller guilds now than back then too.
Also about the VR fight, for those that might be thinking to themselves "why does everyone say it's an easy boss?" it is because it's probably the last 1-stage fight we'll ever see (the same from start to finish) from here on out it's multiple stage bosses all the way, so if you think VR is difficult then it may be time to do some homework...
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9-24-2007 @ 2:04PM
Golgothen said...
@ 4,5 & 7
Yes we heard that VR was the easiest of the bosses in TK and I know for a fact that I am waaay undergeared for that place, but the raid was hurting for another person and asked me to tag along (who would decline?) and I'm a tank so it wasn't due to my DPS. I'm not sure how well everyone else is geared and I believe we had issues w/ people needing to move due to the orbs. It was definitely a learning experience and I'm sure they will nail it next time. BTW, #4... how can you considered a raiding toon at lvl 70 a noob?
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9-24-2007 @ 4:28PM
lori said...
@10. "Noob" is a relative term and can be applied to anyone that has not played as long as you, has less quality gear than you, downed fewer mobs, etc., etc..
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9-24-2007 @ 4:53PM
Freehugz said...
@4 ....?
Maybe I misread your post but I understood
"VR isn't hard my guild couldn't down him the first time"
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9-24-2007 @ 5:26PM
Golgothen said...
@ 11
Okay, I can deal with being a noob...and the way you explain it makes perfect sense...almost. Wouldn't we all be noobs then? There is only one person that isn't a noob?
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9-24-2007 @ 6:09PM
Pudie said...
Fellow PainTrainer here. I out biggest problem,imo, was the lack of well geared players. But it was a great time(your mom loved it!), we got to know the other guild, and it was the first it what will probably be many 25 mans to come. Both GMs are best friends off line so I don't see much drama down the line. We just went in a bit early and got our ass kicked cause of it. SolTrain FTW!
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9-24-2007 @ 6:21PM
Uber-Noob said...
@13
Yes we are all noobs except that one 6 yr old girl. She pwns all!!!
(BTW Im uber-noob. I am the super hero of the under-geared and npcs everywhere.)
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9-24-2007 @ 7:01PM
lori said...
@13
Yep, except for one supreme being, we are all noobs. Hahaha Perhaps there are just too many supreme beings on the forums.
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9-25-2007 @ 11:33AM
gm said...
How to make guild alliances work from past experience (did it twice as a GM pre BC and after)
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#1- Guildmasters are like rogues- they are all assholes. They have worked hard to make their little fiefdom and they don't want to lose control.. so, Make sure you never mention merger... Ever... You don't want to merge your guild, you don't want them to merge their guild.
#2- Create a channel with a neutral name.. I like GAP channel (guild alliance pugs) - don't password it.
#3- Get all your members to join the channel upon login and tell them to start using it. Use it for announcements of guild runs, use the channel before going to looking for group. Get activity on that channel!
#4- tell the other GM to feel free to login to your channel and test it out (make sure your members are committed - if a guild 5 man is taking place and this other GM announces he needs a priest.. break apart your group to send the priest).
#5- Encourage that GM to inform his/her people of the channel and make sure your guild is fully prepared to support them first-- all it takes is like 3 days and they will be on board.
#6- lather-rinse-repeat with another guild - allow/encourage the other GM to add players to GAP channel as needed...
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pretty soon - the channel will grow. It was not uncommon to have 5 guilds using the channel and 20-30 really good players (casual players) making a giant super guild.
If your guild is a bunch of selfish loot whores you won't have the success we did... and often, the channel can go dead for 3 or 4 days at a time, but it always picks back up.
The best part is... policing the channel is as simple as the /ignore command (which is not as confrontational as doing it to another guild member).
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It seems to stop guild hoppers (I can be in a guild that fits my social circle without being denied access to runs beyond my tiny group). It also seems to give the better players access to each other (how many officers/GM's disband their guilds to join forces and create a new guild causing much frustration and hard feelings).
Guilds are fine- GAP channel is better.
It works!
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