Attunement doesn't matter much when we can all save up a few points and get our:

http://www.mmo-champion.com/index.php?topic=728.msg7206

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As a level 59 Paladin with about 28 days /played in total who spends too much time trying to corner the heavy hide market and not enough time questing, that chart makes it quite obvious to me that I'll never see those places.

Now you'll excuse me. I've Ironfeather Sets to sell.

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I see it, personally, as a way to to almost weed out more dedicated players and reward them with the "high end content".

In no way do I agree with it, but that'd what I believe these attunement chains try to accomplish. They also act as diversions from the main goal to keep these dedicated players bashing their head against the wall until they break through to the content. More play time. More money for blizz.

Also.. I think Blizz is noting that too extreme of a chain just keeps people from even trying. Didn't the req. for CoT: Hyjal require an actual kill of Lady Vashj and Kel'thas before it was lowered to just have access? ... ... unless I'm mistaken which I have an odd feeling I am.

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When there is attunement, you know that the people you are with were not just nursed through, an effort had to occur for them to reach this.

The opposite of that is how long do I have to grind to maybe see something new.

A balance needs to be struck somewhere along the way. If it is just 5-mans/10mans to get into the deeper stuff, that is not bad. If it is 30 of them, that gets to be an issue.

Short form: Attunement good, 3 months of attunement bad.

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I agree that it's all about the level of attunement. An attunement like what we had to do to go to MC isn't bad. It's just one BRD run.

BWL was just one UBRS run.

Karazhan is a beast though, and others are even worse.

Some attunement is good, too much is bad.

Also, I agree that old dungeons should unlock once you hit a certain level. I was asked to heal MC on my pally the other day and my reply had to be "LOL. I'm a BE. I'm not even attuned."

Yah. If my guild wants to hit up Ony for old times sakes, I'm left out just because I rolled a race that Blizzard didn't even introduce until after Ony was no longer important.

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attunement screens out the noobs. it's def necessary.

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Necessary. The Kara attune really isn't that bad - not nearly as bad as Onyxia. But it also ensures that people running "higher content" at least have a chance at having decent gear going in. Who else is annoyed by people who burn to 70, get powered through attunements and then start raiding right away?

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I hate attunements. The heroics is easy. But we got shadow priest who leveled up to 70 just recently and only has the lvl 40 riding mount. He is more interested in doing arena than anything but his gear is mostly greens. The money he did make was to buy cloth to get the entire FSW set. And yet he can not possible get Kara attuned without dropping 1400 gold because you have to go to the Arc. I believe this to be a sham. I know gold is pretty easy to make now and days but still you should not be forced to pay an extortion to be attuned for any instance.

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Isn't that chart outdated since they removed the attunements for Serpentshire and Tempest Keep? What's really required to get to Hyjal now?

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When people talk about attunements, there's lots of talk about "dedication" and "screening out noobs". People forget two very important facts about attunements:

1. They weren't in the original game. They were only added after the fact to Molten Core because instance population caps were added. Since only 10 people could be in BRD, your entire 40 person raid couldn't charge to Molten Core's entrance anymore. Hence, a very simple attunement quest to take a shortcut directly into Molten Core. BWL had one for the exact same reason. AQ40 didn't have one at all. Only Naxx actually had one, and that seemed more focused on making people grind Argent Dawn rep then anything else.

2. See Naxx. Most of the attunements in BC were actually rep grinds. Those don't "screen out noobs". They don't reward hardcore raiders. They just waste everyones time.

Karazhan attunement was fine. Gruul and Magtheridon didn't have one. SSC required a rep grind. Tempest Keep required two rep grinds.

Remind me again why I should have to grind Sha'tar and Honor Hold rep if my guild needs my Mage alt to sheep some trash on the way to Al'ar simply due to real life keeping our other Mages busy one day? What does mindlessly farming Mechannar (which any PUG can do) do to prepare me for raiding? What does doing it for the second or god forbid third time accomplish except wasting my time?

You'll notice how Blizzard removed the attunements that required rep grinds (SSC, Tempest Keep), but not the ones that didn't (Karazhan, Hyjal). There's a reason for that.

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When you reach maximum level in the game, better equipment becomes the new level. But most people don't realize this. They don't want to "waste" their time getting (for example) Tier X gear and try to skip to Tier X+1.

The result is dozens of attempts where they respec for different instances and buy materials for enchantments and gems to tailor their characters for particular bosses. If you're at the very end of the game (a moving goalpost) that's sort of expected. But for something like Kara?

That's what's good about keys. They force the players to realize that if they don't have the gear to open the front door, things will only get worse once they step inside. This hurts hardcore players who have to close their eyes and pray everyone is actually ready and it hurts casuals who waste what little time they have to play on content they simply aren't ready for.

Now what happens is that guilds will help lesser geared players through the key requirements. Four of the best in the guild will help a 5th who just hit maximum level. To that I can only say: Blizzard warned you and you didn't listen.

Personally? I think they should have some kind of gear evaluation code. Something that checks the item level of each slot. If you don't measure up, you don't get in.

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For Hyjal, you still need a kill of Lady Vashj and Kel'thas. They removed attunments to SSC and The Eye.

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Attunements should really only be done once per account. Having to grind your attunement on every single alt is just plain annoying.

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for me is just bullshit that attunements are rewards for dedicated players... every player pays the same amount and have the same right to see high end content without wasting time. Dedicated players should know that the general population will just 'see' the content.. clear this new content is another conversation. How many guilds went to SSC after they removed the attunement? And how many of them killed the bosses? High end players will do their job, kill the bosses and loot. Normal players will just try. Leave them alone. :)

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attunements... hmpf... bad for twinks!

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time sink ftw ;)

Seriously this game lacks everything but proper raiding content and endless grinding. All you can do in the end game is raiding your ass off. There is no useful crafting (the little crafting that exists is just a nice addons, filled with stuff that you mostly get in raids or while grinding). There is no house building, no character development, nothing.

So what are the developers supposed to do?

The easiest and cheapest solution is using what is already there - raiding content and "force" ppl to use it. This way you make the players spend endless amounts of time in the game without the need to create anything new.

Blizzard are masters of marketing. They sell you endless hours of reputation grind to enter an instance that you need to enter the place that you really want to access as fun. It isn't. At least for me attunements are just a waste of time and a necessary evil, something that I cannot skip.

Don't get me wrong. I like this game. But it's not all that shiny.

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agree with #1 ... instance attunements now is pvp..
no one runs instances anymore because people can just do pvp to get t5 equivalents.. once u got the gear u just roll into ssc tk a well geared nooblick who cant play his class..
case in point the shadow priest who finds its too difficult to drop 1000 gold to buy a flying mount... just do your quests and you get 1000 gold easily instead, you have pvp players on pve servers doing absolutely nothing pvp...
leave them on a pvp server and balance up the population on pve servers

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Couple of thoughts:

1. Attunement is the leveling at the non-leveling level.
Since at the cap level you can't base instance runs and raids on level (all 70's are equal in the eyes of illadin), you have to find another way for differentiation.

2. The attunement process gives you better gear and more experience, that will help you come raid day. I would like to see a green, just dinged, 70, running kara. GL, but not with me. Do a couple of kills in the big boys yard, such as BM or SL, than you might take a spot.
Same with Gruul and further. You wouldn't like to run SSC with players who cant run heroics. It suppose to save you the joy of wipeing 25 people just cause the tank prefer pvping so he's not holding aggro that well.

3. If 10 or 25 people will have to trust you to be a good enough player not to waste their precious time - its better for you to do the attunement process.
Players who cut the attunement to a minimum and try to get into kara 2 days after they hit 70, will just cause the others too much of repair bills.

4. After kara, even blizz had figured out most of the attunement is redundant, thank god.
If you cleared kara, chances are you can go further but not before.

So yes, most players (self included) don't really like the idea when they are all hot about new content. But don't forget that to see the new content - you will not go alone. Even if you don't like the process, do it anyway, for the others who will raid with you.

Z,
lfgkz

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The Kz attunement is incredibly simple - pugs finish it all the time even on my short-bus server.

The only other attunment left is that you have to finish SSC to go to Mt. Hyjal. That chart is not accurate.

So...what's the big deal?

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Attunement is probably the reason I'll quit playing.

I have a job and a wife and kids and don't have unlimited time to devote to the task of getting to the high level content.

When I log in I need to know what I'm doing will count and not just be waisted time.

I'm starting the believe this is aimed at the hard core players who do have the time with non of the comitments.

Thus, I may well suspend my account (and Payments to Bliz) until the next expansion.

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