From my research in the official forums and a few other places, and from playing around with the talent calculator, here's the best I've been able to come up with: 15/46/0 or 5/46/10. Fairly similar, as you can see. However, I'm somewhat uncomfortable with both builds; essentially, few of the points that aren't in Demonology really satisfy me.
Let's start with Demo, since it's the area I'm most sure of. Demonic Embrace is a no-brainer; more of a primary stat for less of an almost irrelevant stat is hard to beat. I hear I'll be using Health Funnel a fair amount when FG grinding, so I'll Improve that to make my health go a bit farther. Now, however, I'm left with three points to spend on some less-than-appetizing talents. Imp VW and Imp Imp are both useless to me, since I expect to have my FG out all the time; and Imp HS is just silly. Therefore, I go for Fel Intellect, paltry though its boost may be. It will also synergize with Demonic Knowledge later, although I don't think FG has too much mana to speak of anyway.
Fel Domination is nice to have, though hardly necessary. Fel Stamina ought to be nice for my tank. I'll pop the other point for this tier into Demonic Aegis, since, again, Imp Succy is worthless to me. And next, I finally get a decent, meaty talent: Unholy Power. Five points down. I might as well take Master Summoner, since I already have the prereq and again it'll be occasionally helpful. And Demonic Sacrifice, while I don't intend to use it frequently, adds so much versatility to a demonologist that I can't bring myself to pass it up. This leaves a few more points until I can get to Master Demonologist, so I sink them in Dem. Aegis.
Next, Master Demonologist. Yummy. 1% increased damage per talent point is great, and some extra resistances are icing on the cake. I'll also take 3/3 Mana Feed to keep that FG going like the Energizer bunny. Soul Link? Sure! Shared damage sounds nice, and -- what's that? 5% more damage caused by master and demon? 5%?! Imba. Taken. Demonic Resilience will protect my tank, and Demonic Knowledge will let me use my pumped up demon's stats to help my own damage potential, addressing what used to be a weakness in Demonology.
Demonic Tactics is yet another 1% boost per talent point. And then we get to Felguard, the whole reason I'm in this tree. Now I know that leaves me with somewhat over the required number of points to get FG -- five extra, to be precise. The problem is that the extra points are all towards the bottom of the tree, where the juicy talents are. If I wanted to cut any, I'd have to take out something like Dem. Knowledge or Dem. Tactics, both excellent talents. And the benefits wouldn't be that great; the best I could get out of Affliction or Destruction if I was only 41 in Demo would be Nightfall or Devastation/Shadowburn, respectively.
So let's assume I'm going 46 in Demo. That leaves 15 points to allocate between Affliction and Destruction. Improved Corruption seems like the only truly essential talent out of what's within my reach there, so I take that for sure. Having a cast time on Corr just feels wrong to me after all this time. But then, as I mentioned above, I have a choice between sticking the other ten points in Afflic or Destro. In Destro, I get Imp. Shadow Bolt and Bane. ISB seems relatively unhelpful when soloing, which is what this build is for, since I'm not going to get a chance to build up much. Bane is nice, but I don't expect SB will be what's doing most of my damage; still, it should be pleasant to have.
What if I go to Aff with those ten points? Well, the most appealing combo for me is Improved Life Tap (<3), Improved Drain Soul, Suppression, and Amplify Curse. ILT is obvious; more mana for less life is always good. IDS is a little shakier; the mana return will probably be smallish, but less threat is good, since I have a tank and I don't want to pull off it. I'm not too certain about Suppression, but I hear it's helpful when leveling, and it's certainly never fun to get resisted. I skip Soul Siphon since I don't expect to be using Drain Life a ton of the time, and I won't be piling on DoTs like I used to do with my UnA build. And finally, the point in Amp Curse is sort of throw-away, although a double-damage CoA every few minutes is fun.
So as you can see, neither option (15/46/0 or 5/46/10) looks overwhelmingly better. And I readily admit that I have never played a FG build, nor have I ever got a warlock past the 55 I'm at now. So I'm asking you, Warlock experts, you who ride single file: what do you think of my build? And should I put the ten floating points in Aff or Dest?
Keep sending in your builds -- just because I've gone with one of my own this week doesn't mean I haven't been reading all your submissions. This Warlock question has just been bugging me.
Subscribe
Reader Comments (Page 1 of 2)
8-14-2007 @ 3:11PM
Jalann said...
Well first of all the greatest Warlock resources is the Warlock's Den Website.
http://www.wowmb.net/
Secondly, Demonic Tactics isn't all that great, as a Warlock is not primarily a Crit-Type caster. You are a DoT caster. So, I've found that 7/43/11 is a great build for me. It generally provides me with the balance I need for everything.
2/3 Mana feed is good enough, and you can bounce that point to Demonic Tactics for 3/5. You can also keep 3/3 Mana Feed and Demonic Tactics at 2/5.
Here's my build:
http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=NV0bZ0gczIizMesuxx0z
Reply
8-14-2007 @ 3:11PM
Mortoria said...
Try 5/45/11
http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=NVZfxczIizMxstxx0z
This tree is pretty balanced and really boosts your base spell damage (while having a pet out). I used this build for a long time. I also like the Imp SB and Bane in Destro. Also down destro is Shadowburn which is amazing for instant burst damage. You get instant corruption in Afflcition. Down the demo tree you egt your basic bread and butter abilities. You can try and take points out of master summoner and put them some where else but ideally it helps while soloing/grinding or in other situations (fear, summon new pet) All in all it's a pretty balanced demo build I would say.
Reply
8-14-2007 @ 3:12PM
SeiferTim said...
My Warlock is Dem specced. She hit 60 a while back and has started on the Outland quests - The last 10 levels with the Felguard have been much more fun than the previous 50.
This is my build: http://armory.worldofwarcraft.com/character-talents.xml?r=Khaz+Modan&n=Fodia
But I've never respecced yet... when I do, I'm planning on dropping Imp HS and Imp Imp and putting those points into Cataclysm and Bane.
Not sure if this build would work for you, though, keep in mind I loathe PvP and I can never get into any groups for instances/raids... :(
Reply
8-14-2007 @ 3:16PM
Steve said...
1.) Skip on the 3/3 Mana Feed. The felguard does use a chunk of mana on his own (especially if you leave cleave on even when fighting single mobs) but 2/3 is sufficient. Anything more is overkill.
2.) Improved Soul Siphon gives my lvl70 warlock about 1300 mana. Considering you can use Rank 1 of the spell, the mana gain is significant when you get the killing blow (i.e. when you're soloing). It's important to note the other benefit of this talent though ... less threat from affliction spells. That right there is worth its weight in gold.
Reply
8-14-2007 @ 3:18PM
Sylythn said...
"IDS is a little shakier; the mana return will probably be smallish" - 15% of your mana is NOT smallish, especially not with the talents of demonology. It's how affliction locks end up at 100% health and mana at the end of every fight while grinding. Trust me, it's worth it.
To be totally honest, this doesn't feel like a demonology spec, it feels like a noobguard spec. The reason I say this comes from why I haven't liked any of the common demo specs people have come out with. (Just for reference, I was Demonology from 1-58). In the old days, people specced demo for Sacrifice or Master Demonologist. They wanted the buffs from the pets and they always ran with the same ones. These days add in Felguard specs with demo locks running only Felguards. I liken it to Affliction locks who only ever run with their imps (
Reply
8-14-2007 @ 3:20PM
Fizzle said...
Affliction. No question. While leveling up, efficiency is king. For your 10 points, you've got it pretty well laid out for the 15/46/0 build. Basically, you would send in the felguard, imp Corr, CoA (or CoS if you want), drain life, drain soul, lifetap, rinse repeat. Throw in a health funnel or fear if your pet gets low. You're at nearly full health and mana the entire time and never have to sit down, all the while giving your pet mana as well. I don't think I had any points in Destro until 70 when I respec'd to a UA build for raiding.
Good luck!
Reply
8-14-2007 @ 3:21PM
Soulbunny said...
go with 5/45/11. just take one talent point from mana feed and get shadowburn.
Reply
8-14-2007 @ 3:21PM
Iazbel said...
@3 you'll get more instance invites when you drop your silly felguard and spec affliction/destruction. A demo lock just isn't very valuable.
Reply
8-14-2007 @ 3:22PM
Arras said...
I thought the same about Fel Domination until I used it a few times...it basically makes your next summon an insta-cast. Very useful if say your funnel is out of range and your FG dies and a whole lotta mobs are suddenly very, very, very mad at you. Cast fel domination and resummon your FG and in he goes!
Not too useful for raids, but for grinding/questing/leveling, it's a nice thing to have in your pocket for those "oh s%^t moments"
Reply
8-14-2007 @ 3:23PM
Sylythn said...
Odd - half my post got cut off...continuing...
(I'm guilty of that one). The way I used to work a full demonology spec pre-TBC was to utilize all my pets situationally. Does the sacced buff benefit us best here, does the summoned buff, which pet it best for the next fight. I was known to switch pets a dozen times or more in instances. I also was damn good at pulling out a voidwalker with Fel Domination for those "oh shit" moments. Between his taunts and the sac bubble when he was about to go down, that saved many a wipe. And when he went down, out came another pet. To me, that versatility and using all your pets at all the right moments is what demo is all about. I've never been a fan of the locks that pick one pet and run with it 24/7. It still kills me to do that as affliction, but at least I don't have the opportunity to pick up all the improvements to my pets anyhow.
Reply
8-14-2007 @ 3:29PM
mathew said...
the first comment in this thread has by former build as well and it's great and has the exact number of points you will likely want.
first off, you're going to want 7 in affliction and 11 in destruction. that instant dot and the life tap will keep you going. as demonology you are most likely going to have affliction and corruption on your mob with felhunter beating on it, wanding or shadowbolting for the rest of your damage. the improved life tap will make sure that your felguard isn't running out of mana 24/7.
the 11 in destruction is obvious. shadowbolt is going to give you more damage for your buck than any of your fire spells will get you and since you want the felguard you won't have enough points to spec for fire anyways. bane, improved shadow bolt are musts and shadowburn is really nice and is hard to live without.
as for the demonology tree itself, 3 points in mana feed is overkill. some argue 1 is enough, i happen to agree with 2 being the sweet spot. the rest of your points in the tree look good except for where you should give up those two "extra" points. my suggestion would be to put 1 point into demonic resilience and 5 into demonic tactics - those are the two talents that have points that you could live without having either in, though is nice to have some points in both.
so, my vote also goes for the 7-43-11 build.
Reply
8-14-2007 @ 3:35PM
Ryan said...
Go 20/41/0, you don't need any destro talents for leveling, grabbing nightfall, empowered corruption and improved life-drain talents will go much further. If you really want a never-stop-take-on-12-mobs-at-a-time-build, though, go for 40/21/0.
Reply
8-14-2007 @ 3:53PM
Finnicks Daerkhiv said...
My suggestion (speaking as one who used a Felguard from the advent of Patch 2.0 until a few months after hitting level 70 and needing to respect Affliction for raiding):
http://www.worldofwarcraft.com/info/classes/warlock/talents.html?5502220010200000000000052030133250102501351000000000000000000000
However, this was the exact build I used from 60-70:
http://www.worldofwarcraft.com/info/classes/warlock/talents.html?0502220500200000000000350030133250102501351000000000000000000000
The main differences are: I swapped Fel Conc for Suppression (in hindsight, why did I need Fel Conc when my felguard was taking all the hits?), I dumped Improved Imp for Improved Health Funnel (I had Imp Imp for instancing, but I ended up using FG as an offtank 90% of the time anyway. Felguard Offtank > Seduce, IMO, as long as your healer is worth his salt).
My suggested path, from level 55, is to start here:
http://www.worldofwarcraft.com/info/classes/warlock/talents.html?0500000000000000000000052030133250101501351000000000000000000000
Upon hitting level 56, pick up the next point in Mana Feed., that will finish your demo tree. From there, start working your way up the Affliction tree, first taking Improved Lifetap, then Soul Siphon, then Improved Drain Soul. Using Rank 1 of Drain Soul to finish your fights will net you a good chunk of mana back (since, as of patch 2.1, your felguard's hits counts as yours, so if your felguard kills the mob, Imp Drain Soul will still proc). Next, grab 4 points in Suppression, then grab your 2 points in Nightfall last.
Using this build, you'll rarely use Shadowbolts, and only count on using them between 67 and 70 when Nightfall procs. You'll be too busy Draining Life and Lifetapping. At level 70, grab the last point in Suppression, and you're done, and in possession of what is, in my opinion, the ULTIMATE soloing build.
Reply
8-14-2007 @ 4:00PM
hehe said...
#12 is correct, if you're doing 41 Demonology to level with (which I am currently leveling a new warlock with), the following is what you want:
http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=IVMrdofZfxczIizcxsz
For the most part your pet is doing the tanking, your dots are doing the damage, if a nightfall pops, you just have more damage.
I don't recommend a demonology build until you are a minimum of level 56 though, the Felguard isn't very useful without certain spellbooks. Stick with Affliction until then.
To put this in perspective, me and my brother run warlocks together right now, we're 66 finishing up Nagrand (we do a zone every evening practically) we took on all the elite mobs by ourselves, including Tusker who is 68+ and we were only 65 at the time.
You won't go wrong as a leveling lock with that build, but if you're planning to raid later, you'll need to look into another build, that's pretty much a solo build for grinding, leveling and soloing.
Reply
8-14-2007 @ 6:23PM
Lori said...
You will be amazed at how EZ leveling is when you get your FG. It's like have a warrior grouped with you.
Don't bother with Demonic Tactics and an Instant summon has saved my butt on too many ocassions.
8/43/10 should keep you up on damage meter depending on who you are grouped with. You may even have to throttle back on the DPS a bit if you are grouped with a Shadow Priest.
Reply
8-14-2007 @ 6:27PM
Lori said...
I also meant to say that it is a credit to World of Warlocks to have a class where sooo many different builds are viable.
Reply
8-14-2007 @ 8:24PM
zzzyxas said...
the 5/46/10 build is good
Reply
8-15-2007 @ 8:01AM
Viper007Bond said...
Well, depends what you wanna do. I rolled full Demo for 1-65 and loved it, then gave up on my constantly dying Felgaurd for full Affliction to hit 70.
The Felguard frankly is worthless for anything in Outlands except PvP (I rolled a Warlock again on the PTR and went full Demo and man oh man, nothing better than 11k HP unbuffed and rarely dying).
People usually stick to full Affliction or a DS/Destro build though (due to the mana suckage of being Destro) for raiding. That's where the DPS is at.
I personally though went shadow Destro via a crazy ass 31/2/28 build ( http://armory.worldofwarcraft.com/character-talents.xml?r=Gnomeregan&n=Bubbajohn ) which I've come to LOVE to death. It's low on the burst damage (I get beaten hard on trash and in PvP), but when it comes to nice and long boss battles, few beat my spec. No mana issues either, especially when running with pallies (double kings and wisdom rocks).
My 2 cents.
Reply
6-20-2008 @ 4:50PM
Killjoy said...
I have very little trouble keeping my Felguard alive, the big trick in dungeons and raids is to turn off cleave and anguish, so that the FG doesn't draw tons of agro off the tank. Doing that, and keeping him at your side when the boss throws lots of AoE damage at its own feet, will do a lot to keep your FG alive.
With Master Demonologist, the extra damage and spell resistance from the Felguard is a very nice buff. Adding over 100 extra spell damage seems good to me.
I've never been a fan of Soul Link, and I'm a bit disappointed that the leaked Demo talent trees have it as a prereq for some much nicer talents, so in effect it will be a wasted talent point for me.
8-15-2007 @ 10:32AM
ben1778 said...
I do mainly pvp and i'm 7-43-11. I've a great time being soul linked with a pile of HP.
I chose shadowburn over nightfall or backlash since it's much more controllable burst dmg (pvp). For farming or PvE the other two are better since they don't require a soul shard, but in the arenas it's more important to have better control of your dmg so you can pour it on and slay the target before the they get a heal.
Reply