Don't forget, we need to kill gnomes..all of them.

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There are others. Of course, Archimonde is an Eredar, but the distinction between him and the Draenei is somewhat elusive. The expansion also added a mission that has Alliance rescuing Thrall, who apparently has a fetish for human women. I'm not at all sure that it's as one sided as all that.

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Lest you forget Kargath Bladefist, once a great leader of the Old Horde, now holed up in Shattered Halls. More Horde leaders for the killing.

Thus further proving that the Horde, like it or not, are still considered the bad guys. Just be glad we Alliance haven't declared the Tauren evil yet, or we'll soon kill him in a dark hole in the ground too.

And isn't Arthas the Lich King, closer to the Forsaken than the Humans in current form?

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Uhm, speaking of Tauren, aside from the random NPC "cultist" in BFD or "torturer" in BRD, there aren't ANY cattle being killed.

I have hopes for the Grimtotems discovering Titanic rune-based biotechnology in Uldum though.

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Everyone's a little bit racist....

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Killing a corrupted Malfurion Stormrage would kinda be losing a great plot opportunity for Illidan to say "LOL@URFACE" to him because of all his moralizing about Illidan becoming corrupted and banishing him and stuff.

We need an in-game cutscene where Malfurion realizes how badly he treated Illidan when he banished him because now Malfurion's corrupted too and he damn sure empathizes more with his brother now than he did before!

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Edwin Vancleef of the Stonemasons
Exarch Maladaar
Celebras the Cursed
Arcanist Doan
Herod
High Inquisitor Fairbanks
High Inquisitor Whitemane
Houndmaster Loksey
Interrogator Vishas
Scarlet Commander Mograine
Darkmaster Gandling
Doctor Theolen Krastinov
Instructor Malicia
Jandice Barov
Lady Illucia Barov
Lord Alexei Barov
Lorekeeper Polkelt
Marduk Blackpool
Ras Frostwhisper
Archivist Galford
Baron Riverdare
Baroness Anastari
Cannon Master Willey
Fras Siabi
Hearthsinger Forresten
Jarien
Magistrate Barthilas
Maleki the Pallid
Malor the Zealous
Postmaster MalOWN!
Commander Sarannis
High Botanist Freywinn
Nethermancer Sepethrea
Pathanleon the calculator
Bazil Thredd
Bruegal Ironknuckle
Dextren Ward
Kam Deepfury
Lady Anacondra
Lord Cobrahn
Lord Pythas
Lord Serpentis
Heigan the Unclean
Noth the Plaguebringer
Gothik the Harvester
Thane Korth'azz
Lady Blaumeux
Sir Zeliek
Highlord Mograine the Ashbringer
Instructor Razuvious
Kel'Thuzad
Lord Illidan Stormrage
Prince Kael'thas

This is an incomplete list, but I think the point is clear, to anyone thinking the Horde is the only group that has it's villains... you're dead wrong.

PS. Technically, Kael'thas is not a Horde Hero, he's Alliance. Race does not equate faction, else those High Elves in Alliance cities are clearly spies.

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You can't actually *kill* a night elf. You see, we all have the 'feign death' skill due to our large population of hunters.

This is MTV and you just got feigned.

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Old Horde WERE bad guys. That's why they're seen as bad guys still, especially in Outland where the remnants are still under demonic control. What few Alliance-related figures and factions that have become bad guys are killable. Dark Iron Dwarves, Defias Brotherhood, Leper Gnomes, Scarlet Crusade..

Playable orcs, trolls, and undead are members of factions that are rare exceptions to the rest of their basically evil races. Not a lot of that going on on the Alliance side.

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@5 - Except us warlocks...we want to kill everyone! :)

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The point I was trying to make is if you look at all the RAIDS they are all either horde races or neutral factions. I'm tired of killing orcs, undead, blood elves and trolls in all my raids. When will I see night elves, draenei, tauren, dwarves, humans and gnomes that need a good kililng in raids?

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(Btw, this is Ketsumei)

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Draenei are in a lot of Outland instances as demonic minions of Illidan and the Burning Legion. Dwarves are the primary villains of the Blackrock Mountain, in the lower area instances anyways.

We need some evil Tauren though. I've probably killed less Tauren than I have of any other race.

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The Eredar just happened to find Draenor before they found Azeroth, and sent Mannoroth to corrupt the Orcs. That's not an "alliance-good, horde-evil" thing, that an "alliance were just lucky" thing. If the Eredar had taken that left turn at Albuquerque and bumped into Azeroth first, the Hellfire Citadel would be filled with frothing, red-skinned humans. :)

But really, what fate is more honorable? To stay true to your people, stand strong, and go down fighting, like Zul'jin? Or to be dominated and turned against your own people, like Arthas or even Sylvanas? Illidan is kinda a wash - he was mistreated and driven away by his own people, and wasn't really dominated, but willingly defected.

I'm alliance and have a gnome alt, so I kinda like the little guys - I can't get on the kill-all-gnomes bandwagon. But the leper gnomes creep me out, so I say they're fair game. And those uppity, world-tree-building, summersault-jumping, shadowmelding, improved-corpse-run-having nightelves can kiss my butt! We haven't had an instance full of them to kill since WC - bring one on! >:)

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I love playing Horde, and I have perpetual arguments with some of my RL friends that they are NOT evil. However, the fact of the matter is that orcs in particular WERE evil: they were allied with, controlled, and corrupted by the Burning Legion. Naturally, you're going to have a lot of orc bad guys.

And if we're counting the trolls of Zul'Aman as a Horde race (despite the fact that those trolls were never allied with the Darkspears), then Illidan, the biggest boss in the game yet, should count as a member of an alliance race. And what about Kharazan?? True, you never fight Medivh himself, but that show is really all ABOUT Medivh. Why aren't we talking about him? If you want to get picky, both Naga and Eredar could even be argued as alliance races.

It's just silly to expect that there will always be a perfect balance between horde- and alliance-races in the instance/raid bosses, so naturally sometimes the scales will tip. Not a single boss has been introduced that doesn't obviously fall out of pre-established lore, and I heavily object to the idea of twisting the game inside out just to convince some of these players that their faction isn't being targetted. Sorry guys, if you choose Horde, accepting the unsavory parts of your history is part of the bargain.

Frankly, after playing both Horde and Alliance, I am REALLY sick of hearing Horde players whine. Yeah, there are advantages and disadvantages to both sides. For one thing, Horde have got it MADE when it comes to zep towers (as opposed to Alliance boat docks), and the Alliance first aid quest is a pain in the butt compared to the Horde's. Yeah, minor things, but no more minor than "waa!! allies get to have sprite darter pets and we don't!"

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The point that you made was that in Outlands/Draenor/orc and Draenei homelands/ area where demons come too really doesn't have a story line deep threaded in human mischief. To go about saying that we should be killing them instead of horde characters that are no longer part of the horde is ludicrous. Also Illidan as much as we hate to admit it is by all knowledge a part demon part nightelf. In a way your killing an alliance character to.

I avoided that thread because I felt it's argument was mute and mostly just spam to the fire. Lore wise outland just doesn't have enough alliance forces to make a whole instance too viable. We also have to remember any undead warlord we kill has something of a connection with the alliance as it is their falling out that brought the undead to us.

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Well the Naga and Illidan can't really be argued as part Alliance anymore. They've been greatly mutated, to no longer resemble their original Night Elf forms, especially the Naga. I'll give you the Eredar, since they're just dark red, like the Fel Orcs, though technically the Eredar came first.

But the Fel Orcs and Orcs of today are the same, just skin color. Hell, it was said that the Orcs' skin turned green due to Demonic taint/influence, so the player race Orcs still carry the very visible mark of their evil past that shows them as once-villains.

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I'm horde and don't personally care about killing horde races in instances, and i'll stick along those lines for the rest of the duration of the game.

The only thing i'd like to see is Gnome Punting.. The day blizzard impliments this i'll be a happy man.

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what a bunch of whining people...
and he dares to drop the "racist" word...

you are WRONG.

there are no reason to kill "night elves" and "bad night elves" would be _Stupid_

Tauren, the same.


blizzard created bad demonic orcs and it's fine. nothing else to say.

Trolls are not all gentle and peaceful, it was from the start. it's fine

Blood Elves : they have their own stories and yeah, there are some bad people working with deamons. yeah, it's life. it's the game.

there are plenty of bad humans (and in Karazhan you mostly kills bad humans ghosts)

you ask _exact_ equality in ALL factions and players : it would be DULL, stupid, UGLY and bad designs.

there are bad draenei too, in some donjons, stop your whines.

Undead in Naxramas are old humans.

and so on

you just choose to put aside everything which not help your thesis and go on with a moronic subject.


Nagas are ancient elves , they go bad for many reasons


perfect balance is _ugly_ , it would create dull situations where we all know what it would happen : "ho I just fight a bad orc, so now it's a bad-bad elve"

the "old hord" was not bad, they were _demonic_ pure evil bastard with evil cold blood and evil missions in evil tiny house full of evil sword to evilly kill everything less evil than them. it's not rational
it's no more the "horde" of wow.

the new horde is NOT the troll of zul'aman or zul gurub or whatever
leper gnomes are NOT alliance
Naga (even if they were elves) are NOT alliance
Undead are NOT alliance
torturous draenei are not alliance
and so on.

the Horde has a "Dramatic Past", it 's Very Good : amazing to create nice roleplaying stories, very interesting background, myriads of possibilities and great quests storyline.

but nooOOo, in your fantasy tiny mind, it's not nice, it's not pink and gentle.

sorry guys but your old troll papa was not pink and fluffy.

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and what the fuck you have with the hate against little person ? you really hate challenged people in real life ?
you dream fantasy is to kick of child ?

it's very annoying to read _everytime_ in thread about "characters factions" always a "funny" joke about how we should kill all gnomes...

I'm sure, because I saw that TOO MANY TIMES it has something with real hate and racism.

when the joke becomes habit, it's in fact Truth Feeling Spoken. _you_ want to hate something different. you choose to hate gnome because they are tiny and weird, so different of your Legolas Clone.


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maybe it's because you are mostly all americans in forums in english language, but why I read mostly everyday some concerns about "races". Are you so racially obsessed ? do you really believe Humanity is separated in "races" with pink, yellow, red and black all separated by blatant stupidity ?

> " Far many more Horde cries of death are being heard lately, and that's just racist."

no it's not racist, morons ! it's just design choice in a fantasy videogames.

yeah, too much often fantasy is inherent racist because of the too much racial-driven stories but these has nothing to see with design choices in World of Warcraft !

(I hope one day, the word "race" would be forbidden and we will speak about "ethnic" or at the least "species")

everytime I read whiners about bad Horde juju or whatever stuff, it's _Exactly_ like those telling Blizzard hates Warriors (or warlock, or paladins, or chamans, or
yeah, so one day, it was the night in fact, blizzard created the Troll
he was a blue troll with long spears and Bright Green hair
and in a stroke of pure hate, Blizzard hated him. really
they really hated him and wanted to make him suffer.
why ? we don't know, it was pure irrational hate
and because blizzard is totally chaotic Evil Bastard, they put the troll in the game.
ONLY to spend YEARS and YEARS of hating players choosing troll : "someone bearing spears is an animal" said the Chief of blizzard. and it was the start of the blood crusade.

so it was the same for orc. (you know ,blizzard hate green and all is green)

they were totally racist.

for example, Blizzard's restaurant is forbidden to Orc. "No Orc inside my house." they say too.

"A good Orc is a dead orc" "my girl will never date a smelly orc"

blizzard was trying to hide the truth
but you totally found it :

Blizzard is racist, they hate fantasy green and spears-bearers people and every people will pay to be green and have spears. _each of them_

...

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well, seriously, I'm really fed up of theses stupid "my horde is not pink like alliance sob sob... blizzard hate me, ho why why why ??" . for the humanity, accept YOU dislike the horde and go reroll a cute female night elve. you will be so much happy and me either. )

ho and yeah : Gnomes are the best. ha !

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Ok, raise your hand if you think we're NOT going to assault Kul Tiras and kill Admiral Proudmoore(again*). Or scale the Greymane Wall and sack Gilneas? Or kill a multitude of Deathknights and Lichs in Northrend?

I do agree that I grow sick of hearing the deathcries of trolls. Now granted, we all should know that the Old Horde was affiliated with the Forest Trolls of Lordaeron, found in BRS, Arathi, Hinterlands, EPL and Ghostlands. Thrall's Horde, however, is affiliated with the Darkspear Tribe - who are closer cousins to the trolls of STV and the Black Morass/Swamp of Sorrows. While the troll heritage quests send us into all three of the Troll "homelands", they aren't really related except in ancient lore and religious relics.

That sad I'm really sick of seeing Trolls groan and slouch around in villages of "ruins". While Forest Trolls should be a kind of slowing decline, jungle trolls all but wiped out by encroaching murloc, goblin, human settlements, and the machinations of the Old Gods**, and sand trolls holed up in dusty Waco, I'm a bit impressed that the one troll tribe to be thriving is the one sleeping on another race's couch.

Darkspear Trolls are vastly superior in the knowledge of magic, shamanism, and priestliness than their relatives. One can only hope that further expansions will introduce us to a highly sophisticated variant of the Troll on Zandalar Island. Show me the multi-tiered fortresses of the civilized Trolls. Let me see their versions of Violet Towers and Altars of Storms!

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