Damage Meters have nothing to do with skill as a player. All they do is breed competition in raids which can lead to people doing dumb things like pulling aggro to stay near the top of a list.

Reply

Damage Meters is buggy as hell. Doesn't sync correctly, especially with pet classes.

SWStats is the way to go http://wow-en.curse-gaming.com/downloads/details/2091/

Reply

Yes, you really can't take the meters as the be-all-end-all for performance. However, they are a very important performance evaluation tool.

One problem for me, as a holy priest, is Prayer Of Mending. This will only show as a heal for me if I put it on me, or it jumps to me and happens to heal me, however, it could heal 4 other people for over 1,000 and none of that will be registered as healing done by me and will in fact be registered as healing done by the person it healed. Prayer of Mending is one of the main heals I use in a raid, particularly at the beginning of the fight because it generates aggro on the person it heals. So if it's cast on the tank, not only will the tank get healed, but he'll generate a slight amount of threat, and I won't generate any. But again, very little of the healing done by Prayer of Mending will show as done from me, so yes, be wary of the damage meters, because there's more to the story then what's being shown.

Reply

I use a meter to evaluate specs and compare one set of weapons/gear/specs to another. Even when comparing two players of the same class it's like tossing darts.

It is fun to top the charts and on the occasion that you cream all the other DPS'ers it's fun to throw out a smarmy comment. But in the end it's a group effort and that 1.5% that put you at the top doesn't clear the instance.

Reply

Any damage meter sucks... As a rogue I usually put my combo-points/energy and poisons in stuff that benefits the whole party.

CC-abilities like Cheap Shot, Kidney shot, Blind and poisons like Crippling poison isn't contributing to my damage/dps.

But it does benefit the whole party, less damage taken is less strain on the healer and there's also more control in combat.

Before I watched my damage/dps and really aimed to get #1 but it's hard as a melee-class to do lots of dps especially in heroics because you can get 1/2-shotted easily while ranged classes can run a bit while the warrior gains more aggro and they won't even be hit.

The whole must-have-most-damage/dps is bull.

Reply

As long as damage meters try to simplify, they will be next to useless. For raiders trying to learn how to improve their game, I'd recommend Wow Web Stats. Only when you get a picture of the whole fight (time dead, mobs targeted, decursing done, etc.) can you start to figure out where it's possible to improve.
http://www.lossendil.com/wws/

For individuals, I'd say either SWStats or Recap (Hawksy's version) are better because they provide more of that information.
http://www-en.curse-gaming.com/downloads/details/5467/

Reply

I agree SWStats is the way to go for damage meters.

Damage meters are most important to see if someone is really lagging behind. As long as most people are fairly close, it's no issue. I also have only played a dps class, so I don't know how representative heal meters are. But when your primary purpose is to dps and someone is doing twice the damage you are, something is very wrong.

Reply

I've been using Assessment for my damage meter, and find it to be lightweight and fairly accurate.

http://files.wowace.com/Assessment/

Reply

The people who complain about damage meters are the same ones who don't know how to play their classes. I'm sorry to say it.

NO, Damage Meters are not the be all and end all of class performance. However, they are one of the most important tool for gauging who is doing their job and who isn't. Have a rogue in #1 and a similarly geared rogue in #7? There's something clearly wrong. Have a hunter doing less DPS than your main tank? We have a problem.

Competing for top DPS slot is a good thing. It means you're doing everything in your power to make sure you're squeezing out every last bit of damage you can make. If you play not caring about your damage output, you're not doing your job as a DPSer and you need to be replaced.

Healing is a completely different ballpark; healing done is not an indication of skill (I can sit here spamming heals on a random warlock between pulls and be #1 on the healing done meters) however overhealing IS an important thing to look at, because it shows which healers aren't wasting mana and which ones are.

Reply

Robodex hit the nail on the head. As a DPS class you should be TRYING to top the meter, because if you aren't, why are you in the raid? To stand around and collect phat loots off of the backs of people who ARE working hard?

Like he said, it's an excellent tool for measuring who sucks and who doesn't. Eg, last night on The Lurker below we had 3 warlocks in the top 5 for damage, and one at 12th....guess who has issues? Without the meters there would be no way to tell he wasn't pulling his weight, and would continue to play in a sub-par manner until we got to a point where his personal performance would affect the whole raid.

In summary...if you aren't trying your best, then you aren't needed, and SWStats is a way to measure effort and skill.

Reply

A lot of people ignorantly believe that meters are bad because they are easy to misuse, good example on misuse at http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.html?topicId=51005333&sid=1&pageNo=1

Two simple steps to get more relevant information.
1. Clear it before and after boss fights. Usually your raid is quick enough on trash but if someone is slacking that could show up, but tracking damage on trash causes some people to maximize their damage/mana and then you have to sit and wait for them after every pull.
More important that people can be mana efficient and sustain DPS (and not die) during a boss fight.

2. Increase the range with which you pick up stuff in your combat log. This should allow you to stop synching which people say is buggy (and I would not be surprised if you could hack your meter to report bloated numbers for yourself if you got a bit into the scripting.

So, you slackers out there, stop wasting time complaining about meters and head over to your class forums and read up how you can increase your performance!

Reply

Also, Earth Shield still isn't listed correctly even in the latest version of DamageMeters-- all of that healing, which I'm clearly responsible for, gets listed as the warrior's.
That's more of a bug fix, though (DM just has to get its numbers straight), and Wyld has bigger ideas in mind for damage meters.
--------------------------------------------------

Having seen that, I just can't be bothered to read the rest of this rant, because you clearly don't have a hold on what exactly is tracked or HOW its tracked.

Its not tracked due to DM being crap. (I agree with people saying get SWS on those points) SWS won't track it that way either though, nor will any parsers out there. Blizzard THEMSELVES track it incorrectly, and I suspect its because they give the threat to those individuals rather than you, the healer.

Reply

@9: Here's something I've been confused about for a while; maybe you can help me understand it. (The numbers that follow are for illustration only and don't necessarily reflect actual game conditions. Also, this is a genuine question, not a rhetorical one; I really don't understand.)

Say a priest uses a high-rank heal on someone who's barely damaged; call it 4,000 health restored when the target's only down by 400 health. This generates 3600 overhealing, and the priest gets grief from the group.

Now say a mage uses a high-rank DPS spell - Pyroblast, maybe - on someone who's barely alive; call it 4,000 damage done when the target only has 400 health left. This is 3600 damage /too much/, but the mage gets praised for being at the top of the damage meter.

How are the situations different? Isn't overdamage just as much a waste of mana, assuming you're a caster DPS class, as overhealing is? Why, then, is one denounced and the other praised?

@11: Did the warlock at #12 not do his job, or did the warlock at #12 not have whatever damage meter you're using installed? Since damage meters rely on syncing between clients (because you can't actually see all of the damage that someone else is doing), someone without the damage meter addon that you're using will appear to be doing a /lot/ less damage than he/she actually is.

-Chris A.
http://www.etherjammer.com/blog/

Reply

I'd just like to add, that as a mage, damage meters annoy the hell out of me.

I'm sick and tired of some guy spamming the damage meters at the end of an instance to say how much better he has done than me.

Knowing when to stop and sheep(multiple times in fights sometimes), when not to pull agro by doing too much damage and when to apply de-buffs (the fire or ice versions), instead of all out nuking at first so you can let the warrior build up agro. These are ALL important things mages have to do that take away from our damage potential.

Another thing, as a mage, I can spam aoe to boast myself up the damage meter (and sometimes I do when grouped with said idiots) but unless used right, it's nearly always to the detriment of the group. However, grouping with idiots who like to spam damage meters you sometimes feel like you have to otherwise they will get on your case.

Damage meters are nothing but bad for being a good player in my opinion.

Reply

For all those saying that DPS meters are important because DPS should be trying to do max DPS all the time, I disagree with you. DPS should be doing as much DPS as they can without drawing aggro, therefore I find threat meters much more valuable than DPS meters because then you can see how much more DPS you can before you draw aggro and do better.

Reply

As a raiding warlock, I find myself not look at damage meters much for myself. And never really during a fight.

However, I do try to keep myself first or second after the tank(s) on the *threat* meters. :D

Reply

Damage meters aside, I'd like to see an Ebay like rating system. Then when we're LF1M to complete our group we can look at their rating and see how others have rated them.

Reply

As someone has already said, WoW Web Stats is currently the best tool for actually learning about what is going on in a fight.

Live damage meters are useful in identifying large variances within classes, but there are so many variables that can effect a fight and with 25 man raids it is more pronounced than before. i.e. where as the 40 man raids would have 4-5 members 2-3 is more normal for a 25 man encounter. If one person gets unlucky with orbs, has a cube he cant damage from, is watery tombed, is fighting his inner demon..... you suddenly have a very small chance of getting a viable comparison.

WWS and it's ability to drill down to the finest detail and examine them across class enabling you to benchmark consistent top performers and emulate them.

Taz

Reply

Things like lifebloom, prayer of mending, earth shield not being credited to the caster is NOT a problem with the meter tracking it, instead it is how it is listed in the combat logs. It doesn't track who the buff came from. Blame Blizz on that if you want.

Damage/healing all have their places. SWStats and even DM ( though much more limited ) prvoide your group / raid with on the fly analysis of what is going on in the fight. You can see if people are properly focus firing targets, if so-and-so is properly healing his tank or is raid healing, whatever.

WWS is more for a post raid analysis, to see spell rotations, buffs / debuffs that were not maintained, who got hit with what when, etc.

I use both SWStats and WWS, and will continue to use both.

While the whole "contribution score" is an interesting idea, that kind of thing is fairly difficult to measure. An enhancement shaman is not brought to a raid just for his DPS, he's brought for the totems and buffs he brings to DPS, much like the utility of feral druids, to OT for a portion of the fight and DPS for another. How do you "measure" that kind of utility amongst a member of the same class that is only healing, or dpsing for that fight?

Reply

@9: Yep, if a rogue is #1 and the other #7 with same gear, there is a problem. 1 of the two is too busy worrying about DPS and not doing enough to control the fight and make life easier on eveyrone.

You are looking at a damage meter as if it tells you when someone's lousy at playing. Thing is, if they do almost no DPS but keep a mob out of the fight so 3 others can kill the other mob, that rogue has actually contributed more.

As for helaing not requiring skill, go to hell. I've been DPS and healer and tank. Healing is the hardest by far. Miss timing on a cast as DPS, well, a small screwup and not as much DPS or you may need to reapply CC to fix something. Miss your heal and the tank is dead, prepare for a wipe. You get hit and have to decide if you can afford to wait out and heal tank while he reaquires aggro. You also have to deal with idiots wanting to be #1 on that damage meter and pulling aggro and then not using their aggro dumps cause it slows DPS. I've actually heard that used.

Meters need to be taken as a general guide but should not be used as competition. That leads to burnt out healers pissed that they never finish runs cause some idiot won't step away and bandage themselves because they'd lose their place on the meter.

Reply