It is a common misconception in the Mac community, and one that they are QUITE smug about. There ARE trojans and viruses for the Mac. The issue is that as a percetage of all computer users, they are small, and an even smaller percentage of them will pick up these things.

Don't buy a Mac because someone tells you they are 'virus-proof'.

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@1

Agreed.

Instead, buy a Mac because you love shiny things, and you can get an entire computer that takes up less space than your monitor.

Worry about that virus stuff later.

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@1 & 2

lol! And you call us smug? Listen to yourselves!

A very real reality is that the WoW client on the Mac runs as good as, if not better, than the Windows client, the UI API allows all plug-ins to function, and on top of all this, there are much fewer trojans or viruses out there.

While OS X and it's applications have there share of vulnerabilities, versus Windows it's not even close; Windows has an order of magnitude more exposure to potential hackers.

If you think a Mac is just another pretty face you're sadly misinformed...it's a solid computer, a productive platform, and a pleasure to use. To say otherwise it to only highlight your own bias and/or ignorance.

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@OP

What possessed you to think even uttering a remote reference to this subject would be a good idea? Here comes WW3 because anals over the Mac vs. PC debate don't have the maturity to let passive mentions slide.

@1,2,3

No one cares, use the computer you prefer and quit making it a religious debate.

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@3: Slow down, there, partner.

I know that there are a lot of misconceptions and prejudices against Macs out there, particularly in the WoW community, and particularly in my guild where the flame wars start up about once a week, but so far Hank and Binrah are not contributing to the mac hate-speech.

All Hank said is that Macs have vulnerabilities. It's true. All Binrah says is that there are other, more compelling reasons to love macs besides their relative safety. True as well.

That being said, Hank, yeah we're smug. Sure there are viruses and trojans out there that can affect macs or the unix core, but not many, and they are often associated with the mac versions of Microsoft products. We Mac users are smug about a lot of things, and justifiably so, but you are right that one should never buy a Mac because someone tells you it's virus-proof. Buy it for the other thousand reasons that are true. Abulia gave you a great list to start with.

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If you're smart about browsing and what you do online, you should have little problems running Windows XP. I've had this computer for 6 months, and I've been just using common sense and it's been fine. I feel no need to switch to a Mac for fear of viruses. (I'd go over to Ubuntu first, anyway.)

I do have a constant fear of keyloggers, though... but I'm just paranoid.

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@Everyone (but especially you #3): From the point of view of a computer & network security consultant, I have to say that, yes, there are quite fewer viruses for the Mac than for Windows, with a list of reasons as long as my arm. But I must also remind you that our issue is not with the actual strength or security of your systems, it is with the average user's PERCEPTION of those systems. Most Apple fanboys (and especially you #3) are so damned smug about how few viruses there are for macs, many average users might decide to eschew important necessities like virus & spyware scanners, after all, Macs don't get viruses so why should I need one? A false sense of security is far far worse than no security at all. And the same goes to you, Linux community, you're not invulnerable either, stop gloating.

And for my last jab of the morning, before you both gloat too much about the percentage of viruses being so low for Mac and Linux systems - keep in mind that virologists tend to write code attacking POPULAR systems. If you un-bury your head from the sand for a minute and stop reveling in how invulnerable you are, you might realize that only a small percent of viruses are coded for MacOS or Linux because they represent an equally small number of targets by comparison. Now consider the speed at which those few viruses there are will propogate through an un-protected network of smug bastards who take no precautions against them.

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Oh, and @4: Beautiful point, I don't intend to make a religious debate out of this and I don't think anyone else here should. Please don't take my post as a flame, it was intended as a wake-up call. If you have ANY computer running ANY operating system and you're not running some kind of anti-virus/spyware software, or don't update/patch your system regularly, or simply don't follow common sense surfing about, you're running a HUGE risk - one that is all too often underestimated by folks running non-M$ operating systems (Who can claim a false sense of security with Microsoft? I seldom have any sense of security at all with their products). Use whatever you want, for whatever reasons you want, but for the love of God and all that is holy, secure it.

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For something that clever, why in god's name does it have a "continue anyway" button?

False positives, I get that, but are you SURE it's a false positive? Maybe I'm just paranoid about these things.

Oh and shut up about Macs the lot of you, we don't care.

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@10- Bob, who the heck cares? I can't name *two* for windows, because-- ta-da!-- I know that fame is what a lot of the jerks go for.
If you're making them famous, you're part of the problem.

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Mmmm, nothing like a forum post on viruses and it turns into a Mac vs PC pissing contest. I am sure that both sides are going to settle this debate once and for all right here on the WoWInsider forums. Call all your friends, get the kids in from outside and gather around while the greatest minds on the internet debate Mac Vs PC and settle this argument once and for all.

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I like both. Is that ok?

ANTI
ANTI is a Macintosh virus. ANTI.A is a variant that removed ANTI.B from Macintosh computers.

Code 252 virus
Code 252 is a Macintosh System 6 and System 7 virus.

CDEF virus
CDEF is a Macintosh System 6 file infector.

That's three, is that good enough for you?

Every system can be infected, like people have said, if you don't secure your system, it is vulnerable, no matter what PC/OS you own. There are more visuses only because there are more users, why attack a small percentage when you can hit the big time?

Mac's are cool for so many reasons, they are very useful. So are PC's, they have many things they can be used for and are genreally compatible with everything. I wish I could have both but I am not rich. It's a shame people just can't see the pro's in both systems, rather than focusing on all the cons in the world, let alone computers.

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Strongmark: All of those examples appear to be at least 15 years old.

Any OS is subject to Trojans because infection is contingent on the user executing the code, instead of automatic replication. If you launch an application and authorize it by typing in your password, it's not really the fault of any OS if that application starts logging keystrokes or does a rm -rf /.

If, instead, we are talking about viruses then I would argue that, yes, OS X is more secure simply due to its UNIX underpinnings - especially the way user permissions are handled. Marketshare may play a part in OS X's relative security - but that is certainly not the only (or largest) factor.

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Trojans/Vulnerabilities that could be exploited by Trojans:

http://www.symantec.com/security_response/writeup.jsp?docid=2006-063013-2645-99
http://www.symantec.com/security_response/writeup.jsp?docid=2006-060110-4631-99

Worms:

http://www.symantec.com/security_response/writeup.jsp?docid=2006-021715-3051-99
http://www.symantec.com/security_response/writeup.jsp?docid=2006-031413-1704-99
http://www.symantec.com/security_response/writeup.jsp?docid=2006-021614-4006-99

Virus:

http://www.symantec.com/security_response/writeup.jsp?docid=2006-110217-1331-99

Bottom line:

Problems exist in Apple OSes and applications. The only reason they're not heavily targeted is the relatively small installed base.

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All in all I like both.

Of course I protect both so it shouldn't matter should it?

Mac's for me are easier to use and PC's are hecka fun to take apart and put new parts in.

Of course then again easier is all in the eye of the beholder. My three year old nephew knew how to operate and rename internet explorer on windows before he even knew how to turn on the mac...

He renamed it Eoi...give him a break he's three.

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"Or, as some of my friends have told me, I could just get a Mac, and not have to worry so much about these kinds of things either."

You know. I'm sick of hearing this. Ok, ok, it's kind of true. But it's NOT because Mac's are more secure! It's because VERY FEW PEOPLE USE MAC.

This is a windows world. If you're writing a virus or what-have-you, and you write it for anything other then windows, it's just not going to go far because they just don't have the same user base.

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Sure you won't get viruses on a Mac, because no one uses/targets them. You also won't have annoying neighbors if you live on an uncharted desert island in the middle of the Pacific too.

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@17 unforunately it is true, I prefer XP over Mac >any day< simply because.. I can install it on hardware I choose.. and because I like to configure systems myself instead of having the computer make all the choices for me. HOWEVER the myth that 'os x is more secure because less people use it' is old, and has been proven wrong. For example, there is a very popular program called Apache, it's rival is called Microsoft IIS, You may not of heard of these programs because they run on important web servers, google it if you would like to know more. Apache had over 80% of the market share running on major web servers, in fact the server bringing you this page is running it, yet MS IIS had more critical exploits for it. (google search 'code red' for example). So why did MS have more exploits for it when it had less market share? Reason: Microsoft has been a joke in computer security since the days of NT, security is second tier to useability, vista is an improvement, but the only real resolve for computer security is linux. Unfortunately I don't see if becoming a real gaming platform for some time. sad really. Microsoft has decided it is sick of people saying it's insecure so it did the only thing it could.. threw the marketting department at it, now you'll see advertisements like "get the facts" which is nothing short of pre-packaged crap, make no mistake os x is more secure, well really I don't know of a more insecure os besides windows 95 - XP, but even with all it going for it, OS X is not the be all and end all as some people suggest.

Overall if everyone would be a little more cautious and skeptical(and up to date windows/osx/anti-malware), everyone would be a little more better off.

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@Hank: "There ARE trojans and viruses for the Mac"

Could you name three real quick?

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