So Illidan met his match yesterday in the form of Nihilum, which means that since the Black Temple is the last and latest bit of content to show up on the live servers, the game is effectively beaten. That's it. We're done. Time to go home.Didn't that seem a little fast? The original WoW content took a few years to "beat," it seems, and now Burning Crusade (and the 2.1 patch) has been beaten by players in a matter of months. Is the endgame going too fast? From Boubouille's wrapup of the Illidan defeat yesterday, we get this post on the Elitist Jerks forums by Tigole. He says Blizzard is very happy with the way Black Temple is tuned. He also takes a look back at Naxx, and says the Four Horsemen were an example of an encounter that was well-tuned, but players at the time didn't have the gear they needed, so it took much longer for guilds to finish them off. The biggest hole in WoW content right now, Tigole says, is the lack of options after Karazhan for 10 man raids-- but, he says, "we're fixing that." So /cheer for more 10 mans to come.
But is the endgame dropping too fast? In my estimation, not at all. In my estimation, Nihilum is not a normal guild. If you're willing to give them the benefit of the doubt on gold buying (and frankly, I am not-- I believe they're cheating), they clearly play the game more than anyone else, driven by both their own determination and the fact that they are basically raiding celebrities in Azeroth. They are the hardcore. And if you're asking me whether hardcore players should finish the endgame content quickly, I'd say they should.
Why? Because that means it will be that much easier for casuals to get there, too.
Look at this week's Guildwatch-- there are tons of guilds working their way through Kara right now, and many of these guilds never had a chance of seeing Naxx or even AQ40. That's exactly the way it should be-- if Blizzard doesn't release any new raiding content until early next year (not likely at all-- more CoT instances are on tap, as well as more Heroics and Kil'jaeden as a boss-- but stick with me for the sake of argument), Nihilum will be sitting around doing nothing, but these casual guilds will just be finishing off the Black Temple and ready to move on. As Tigole says, "properly tuned raid content should die." And I'd say not just at the hands of a guild like Nihilum (a guild that either plays too much, or, depending on what the rumors say lately, cheats), but at the hands of a large number of good, steady players.
So while it's great to see Nihilum downing Illidan (grats to them and stuff), frankly, I don't care. I care more about my guild and what we're doing-- and whether that content will still be fresh and new when we get there. I never got to see AQ40, and I never got to see Naxx, because by the time my casual guild got to that point, there was Outland and better things to do. So if Nihilum having finished the game now means that my guild will be able to finish the game three months from now and still have it mean something, that's completely fine in my book. Yes, raid progression went extremely fast for those few guilds that went crazy over it, but I take that as a good sign-- a sign that what they down now, I as a casual player will have a chance to down later.
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Reader Comments (Page 1 of 2)
6-06-2007 @ 1:36PM
Coherent said...
I expected Illidan to be super-hard at first and then get gradually nerfed, but I'm not unhappy that they finished him off easily. Now maybe we can give Nihilum the anonymity they deserve, and get back to concentrating on more accessible content.
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6-06-2007 @ 1:41PM
Sylvina said...
I'm waiting for them to dominate in the Arena and hear the uproar from everyone when Nihilum & D&T are rocking the Season 2 arena... everyone is going to QQ themselves to death over it.
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6-06-2007 @ 1:44PM
James said...
And really, even for Nihilum is it "done"?
What 3 pieces of gear per run? It will take quite a while for all 25+ people to get all of their T6 at that rate. It should last at least another 6 months for them.
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6-06-2007 @ 1:50PM
Steve said...
I don't think the end-game pacing now is that different from the way it used to be. I don't raid anymore, but I used to be one of the top raiding guilds in the world. We were amongst the first to clear BWL. Then we spent months and months, what seemed like close to half a year (I don't remember the exact timeline, but it sure felt that long) farming BWL before AQ40 was put into the game.
The reality is, being one of the top guilds means you'll spent months farming the same instance before Blizzard can catch up with the content. However, it also means you actually have the chance of completing your sets & collection of gear before moving on, which allows you to be more prepared, at least gear-wise to take on new challenges.
Guilds that are slower in progression, will always tend to become impatient with the content they are currently farming when new stuff is already out. Usually that will result in guilds pushing ahead into new content that they are not geared and ready for, and turning it into a painful progression process anyway.
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6-06-2007 @ 1:59PM
Tridus said...
This is great.
Naxx was a failure in the end because it was so hard that an overwhelming majority of the playerbase never got anywhere in it. Tigole even touches on that in his post when he talks about the Four Horsemen. "The Four Hoursemen were considered one of our best tuned encounters in the game. But I'll argue that's because so few people actually progressed to the point of needing to beat them" is what he says, and he's right.
WoW is not successful because it caters to the hardcore audience, but because it gives everybody something to do. The fact that Nihilum can clear BT so fast gives me hope that my guild of people who can't raid 8 hours a day 7 days a week due to real life and don't buy gold might actually see it some day.
All in all, it seems like they have a good balance right now. A large number of players can progress at some not very fast pace, but they CAN progress. The hardcore can go a lot faster of course. Thats better then the old "the hardcore can clear this dungeon, the other 95% of players will never get to seriously attempt it" that we had before BC.
Good job Blizzard.
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6-06-2007 @ 1:59PM
timmy said...
Last time I checked, Mt. Hyjal hasn't been fully cleared - so there's still a bit more endgame that hasn't been beaten yet.
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6-06-2007 @ 2:00PM
A_B said...
If it weren't for the fact I read this blog, I would have no idea who Nihilum is or about their exploits. And even now that I do, their exploits are absolutely meaningless to me. I couldn't care less as it has zero impact on my playing.
I'm responding because I saw, "Didn't that seem a little fast?" What? Who cares? Why would anyone care? What impact does it have on anyone at all?
Are they on your server? Is it a PVP server and now they're going to take their new equipment and make your life miserable? No? Then so what?
If somebody finishes a video game before me, I couldn't care less. Let's pick a random game ... Halo 2. If some teenager in the hinterlands finishes the campaign in Halo 2 before me, why should I care? What possible impact could that have on me?
Better yet, a book. If somebody has read to the end of a book that I haven't read, what does that have to do with me?
Or a movie? I didn't see Spiderman 3 yet. Unless I seek out spoilers, it will be as "fresh" when I eventually do see it, as it was when it came out.
The OP says he doesn't care. I agree. My question is, who does care? .005% of the WoW population?
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6-06-2007 @ 2:05PM
Hank said...
My raiding experience is all AQ20 and ZG. And you know what? I'm happy. My guild is smallish, many of us are parents, have full-time jobs, etc. So clearly, we're casuals, although some of us group with other small casual guilds to do 25-man content, we stick together, get our stuff down, and say "bring on more 10-man content".
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6-06-2007 @ 2:13PM
Freehugz said...
I like the pace of the endgame right now. It seems to me that the switch from 40 man to 25 man means that you start getting bored of the instances right when you're ready to move onto the next one.
Who cares how fast they did it. Somebody somewhere made it to lvl 70 before I even hit 61. All that means to me is that I can look up boss strats before getting to them.
P.S. Woot more 10 mans!
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6-06-2007 @ 2:15PM
Ana said...
If Tridus hadn't done so already, I was going to point out that I think you misinterpreted Tigole's comment about 4H. It wasn't that it was well-tuned; it's that it was so stupidly difficult that only the chain-raiding wow-crack-monkeys would ever think it's a decent encounter. :-P
The difficulty (as I understand it) was not in gear at all - it was because it was the first time an encounter *required* raid stacking (8 tanks, oy). I think he's arguing against all the people who hold that encounters like 4H are in any way fun for the rest of us.
Goodness knows they're not averse to gear check fights in TBC, as my friends doing Curator are only too well aware. :)
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6-06-2007 @ 2:29PM
Corrodias said...
Some of you don't seem to understand what impact Nihilum's quick progression means to you when you're not on the same realm. I can explain it.
If Blizzard sees this high end raid finished so quickly, they MIGHT (haven't, but could have) choose to create the next, harder dungeon. They might even choose to make Black Temple harder. That means YOU will never get through it and that instead of you having more fun things to do at 70, 60, or even 40, you have the same old game while the top end raiders get more and more content.
This does not appear to be the case, but the concern is that it could happen: Blizzard spending more time on content that you can't enjoy anyway and not fixing the problems with existing content.
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6-06-2007 @ 2:31PM
Ryan said...
I will expect Zul' Aman as a 10 man within the next couple patches then.
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6-06-2007 @ 2:41PM
Narugh said...
I like how everyone keep saying Nihilum cheats and buys gold when there is no proof at all. People also have no idea how much or little Nihilum played on ptr(two days with the guild) and have no idea how much they raid.
So, just curious. Why the pure hate for Nihilum by the people who comment and the writers of this blog? Could be an interesting subject of discussion.
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6-06-2007 @ 2:54PM
Corrodias said...
jealousy
self-denial of that jealousy
self-justification of that denial (sour grapes -- wow those guys have no life! i'm glad i'm not like them.)
public proclamation of that justification
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6-06-2007 @ 3:03PM
amasen said...
The poster linked to an article that basically bashes on the claims that Nihilum is cheating... Any time someone is in the limelight people will bash on them. Grats to Nihilum, I'm glad their 8+ hour days actually paid off so well... 2+ months in black temple @ 8 hours a day and they got a win (remember they did it every day in test servers).
Truthfully I think the end game still needs a lot of work for casuals to truely enjoy it. Right now all the exciting content is for raiders only (Vasj, Kael, Illidan, Mt hyjal), and all casuals get is one 10 man instance and the ability to redo all their 5mans over with mobs that simply elite+
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6-06-2007 @ 3:03PM
Van said...
Its funny that for wowinsider, D&T and Nihilum are Cheaters, Next topics will be that Last Resort,Forte, Curse and all the others "Hardcore" guilds are cheaters too...
and about "But is the endgame dropping too fast?", they are the best, of course they will beat the endgame fast, or what people want? a raid that take 2 month to clear? people will QQ in the D&R forums about that... but well, people are QQ about BT being "easy" now..
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6-06-2007 @ 3:04PM
EvilCheese said...
"and frankly, I am not-- I believe they're cheating"
Cool, that's totally responsible of you. You believe they're cheating, because of some ex-member, even though by the looks of it (ie the other side of the story) this wasn't the case. But hey, there's a reason this site is amateur, right?
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6-06-2007 @ 3:22PM
shermon15 said...
Maybe because its fun :)
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6-06-2007 @ 3:31PM
Duromiir said...
Jealousy?
Well, if you're trying to get to where they are, I suppose that's true. In this case, however, I think not.
Most of us don't have the time or impetus to raid like they do. The rumors I keep hearing (never confirmed by a member, to the best of my knowledge) are of 8+ hour daily raids. Let's put this in perspective:
Work: 9am-5pm (8hrs)
Communte home: 30mins (est.)
Prep time (Get your food/drinks, etc.): 30mins.
WoW: 6pm-2am (8hrs)
Weekends: WoW during all your free time (est 18hrs/day, 36hrs over 2 days)
Now, even if my weekend estimates are off, if you play this game for 70+ hours a week, and you raid (as opposed to compulsive alt-rolling) you had *better* be involved in world and server firsts.
Add to that the amount of time spent on the PTR, testing and learning new content before most players get a glimpse of it.
It doesn't mean that they're not good.
They're very, very good.
What it means is that they're spending an extra work week playing a video game, and for that, drooling fanboi's rush out to spread-eagle before the raid, offering themselves carnally.
Also consider that this is a news blog about the game that they play and get a lot of press for playing. Their posting of world firsts brings attention to them, and with it, scrutiny. It was one of their own ex-members who leveled the charges against them, not WoWInsider, they merely report on it and (rightly) tag it as rumor.
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6-06-2007 @ 3:35PM
Elizabeth Wachowski said...
About the Nihilum ex-member post -- that was mine, and reasonable people looking at it can come to their own conclusions based on the screenshots.
I believe that it was an honest bug that got her to one HP and that Lewt SSed and SWD'd on his own. In that case, Nihilum would be innocent and Lewt would be technically guilty, although I would have absolutely done the same in his place.
But I can see how other people can come to a different conclusion. WOW Insider is not a monolithic entity -- we are different people with different opinions.
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