I got two 0/47/14 builds from two different people. One build included Intensity and Savage Fury, while the other one had Brutal Impact and Natural Shapeshifter. For reasons I'll get into later, I prefer the first variant, by Athaliana of Moonrunner, so that's what I'll look at here. Oh, and to answer your question, bwest0526, there is, as you can see, no set reason why builds have to be 0/41/20 or 31/0/30 or other such patterns like that. However, talent trees are designed such that particularly appealing one-point talents are placed at 11, 21, 31, and 41 points into each tree, so many builds go into trees with the goal of getting one of those talents, and then put the rest of their points in a different tree for some other purpose. The 21, 31, and 41 point talents especially tend to be very good values in many cases.
This build is one that eschews the traditional 41/20, 40/21, or 31/30 talent distributions. After 14 points in the Restoration tree, it becomes almost entirely worthless for anything but healing, and since this build is (hopefully) never going to be a main healer, we can use those extra six points to more fully flesh out Feral. This allows us to take almost every available point in the Feral tree.
What do we skip? Feral Aggression has never been a very impressive talent. The AP reduction of Demoralizing Roar is not huge, and Ferocious Bite is hardly a staple attack in most environments (PvP being perhaps a notable exception). Furthermore, the talent it's up against is extremely solid: it's hard to beat cost reductions on the most used skills.
We skip Brutal Impact, because pretty much every mob of note is stun-immune. Again, this would be much more worthwhile in PvP. Finally, we skip Nurturing Instinct, because healing is not a major focus of this build. For a druid more concerned about versatility and less about maximizing Feral power, this might be a good talent to take; with 300 strength, that's a respectable +75 healing per talent point.
Every other possible point in Feral is taken. The fact that we can do this so easily underscores why Feral is such a good tree: it's very streamlined. There's not a lot of trash talents in it, and it's quite easy to take all the talents you want to tank well and dps well. It also explains why almost every Feral druid makes a good tank: there aren't a lot of choices to make when it comes to which talents are good to take for tanking. Warrior tanking talents are spread out through Arms and Prot, but for both Pallies and Druids, they just have one tree that they need for tanking, essentially. The situation is similar for healing talents: Priest healing talents are scattered around in Holy and Disc, but every other healing class has just one healing tree, and therefore is able to pick up all their important healing talents a lot easier.
There is one talent in Feral that we do take that is of suspect utility: Predatory Instincts. Most talents in this position are very strong; this is where many classes' " Empowered" talents live, which usually give substantive boosts to staple skills. Indeed, the other two Druid trees follow this pattern, with talents that increase the spellpower coefficients of commonly used spells. Predatory Instincts, on the other hand, gives a mere 10% boost to melee attacks' crit bonus, bringing crits from 200% to 210%. This has the net effect of increasing damage by 10% of your crit rate. If your crit chance is 15%, for instance, you gain 1.5% damage. Pretty weak for 5 talent points. (15% appears to be a reasonable average for Feral druids, who don't seem to focus on crit that much.) It does have a secondary effect, 15% increased chance to avoid AoEs, but that underwhelms me as well; it just doesn't seem like it'll make that much of a difference.
Edit: thanks to numerous people who pointed out that druids get an extra 11% crit from talents that are only active in Feral forms. But let's be generous and say you're rolling with 30% crit as a bear/kitty; that still means this talent gives you +3% damage (and helps make your damage more spiky, which is no good as a cat). And for the 15% reduction from AoEs to stack up as 1% reduction per point, you'd have to be taking at least 6.7% of your damage as AoEs -- is that really the case? Of course, I guess since this is a dual purpose talent (more damage out, less damage in), it's alright if it's less than 1% per point for each purpose...still, it doesn't seem as strong as it should be for its position.
However weak that talent is, though, I don't see anywhere that 5 points would be more useful in a heavily Feral-focused build. Perhaps they would be well moved to Nurturing Instinct and/or the Resto tree for a more hybrid-focused build.
Speaking of Resto, what have we got in there? Furor, for some instant rage or energy on shifting, is immensely handy. It also allows one to "power-shift" -- shifting out and then back into form in order to gain some quick rage or energy. Obviously mana-intensive and not viable when tanking, but the technique has its uses. Next, Naturalist is a blast of minty fresh goodness when compared to Predatory Instincts. This talent is only 5 points deep, is in the healing tree, and still gives more than five times as much benefit to damage as a talent that requires 35 in the melee tree? Something's not right here. And that's not even to mention the vital cast time decrease on Healing Touch.
The last four points of this build go in Intensity, for some more quick rage generation (and extra staying power when healing), and Omen of Clarity, a talent that I think any melee class would kill for. According to the Druid Wiki, this procs 2.5 times per minute, or once every 24 seconds, on average. If you use it on Mangle, that's worth 0.63 rage per second in bear form and 1.67 energy per second in cat (taking Ferocity into account). There are probably better skills to use your OoC procs on, but Mangle seemed like a good skill to use for example purposes.
Oh, and why not Natural Shapeshifter? Simple: we're not going to be shifting that much, and it wouldn't be worth the points. An automatic 10 rage from every Enrage is much more worthwhile. Again, Natural Shapeshifter seems like a talent that would see quite a bit of value in PvP, but for a PvE build, I'd agree with the decision to skip it.
Anyway, that's the build! And having looked around at a few of my Druid friends' builds, 0/47/14 does seem quite popular. Here's hoping Druids don't get nerfed anytime soon; it's nice to see a good thing going for them for once. What do you think, feral folks? How would you tweak this build, and is my math off on Predatory Instincts, or is it really as awful as it seems?
Next week: I dunno! Could be anything, I'm wild and crazy that way. I've gone through each class once, so I can't think of any particular reason to do one class over another. What would you like to see? Drop me a line, keep sending those builds, and may you never have to respec because you accidentally put a point in Throwing Weapon Specialization like I did one time (I was very glad when they removed that talent).
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Reader Comments (Page 1 of 2)
5-23-2007 @ 5:55PM
Brad said...
I can't wait for the ensuing penis waving contest whenever a build shop is posted.
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5-23-2007 @ 5:58PM
chaz said...
*waves*
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5-23-2007 @ 6:19PM
Serenity said...
I'd like to point out that Druid's cannot shred face, as shred requires you to be behind the target.
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5-23-2007 @ 6:21PM
Eliah Hecht said...
Fixed, thanks.
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5-23-2007 @ 6:27PM
thundercougarfalconbird said...
As both a newb and a druid fan, does anyone recommend this as a leveling build?
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5-23-2007 @ 6:30PM
Hallick said...
I think you underestimate the importance of crit, especially for cat dps for druids. I easily break 20% crit in cat form as a resto druid in sub-par feral dps gear. I'd be surprised to see many feral druids (even with just quest-reward and 5-man gear) with much less than 30% crit (they're getting 5% just from leader of the pack). Feral Druids get an extra combo point on crit when in cat form, which adds up to a nice dps boost on top of the extra crit damage.
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5-23-2007 @ 6:43PM
Eliah Hecht said...
Hallick: I was relying on Armory statistics of druids I know for an average crit chance. If Predatory Instinct added to crit chance, instead of adding to damage from crits, I'd be all over it. As it is, you'd have to have a 50% crit chance before it met my 1% damage added per TP benchmark; for a talent that far down in the tree, it seems pretty bad.
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5-23-2007 @ 6:51PM
Corrodias said...
Fortunately, we can now Pounce face since one of those patches a while back. :3
I love brutal impact because it allows this opening combo as a cat: Pounce, Mangle, Shred before the stun ends and the opponent turns to face you. I think without that extra full second, i wouldn't have time for my energy to generate for that unless omen of clarity procced. Even if so, though, increasing the length of the stuns by that amount feels to me worth the two points it asks.
I have Nature's Grasp, but i never remember to use it. It might have more value in PvP, which i do very little.
If i were to drop Predatory Instincts, i would actually put them into Natural Shapeshifter. Shifting into bear or cat form takes a full 25% of my mana in feral gear, and i have found on occasion that i want to change form but have to stand around until my mana regenerates first, definitely in PvP but also even in PvE.
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5-23-2007 @ 6:52PM
Merus said...
Yeah, in cat form (and bear form for that matter) extra crit makes the druid a lot more sustainable. A standard druid tanking tactic is to grab the attention of a few mobs by using Swipe, and keep Swipe going by using the +5 rage bonus the druid gets whenever it crits. If you're hitting enough mobs, you can often get a bonus every time you Swipe. With that and the damage the mobs are doing, you can hold mobs for a fair while, having them only peel off when they're just about ready to die.
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5-23-2007 @ 7:05PM
Brandon said...
I'm a Feral Tank and I have to say that the primary reason you *WANT* Predatory Instincts is the part that "underwhelmed" you, that being 15% chance to avoid AOE attacks. Just about every boss you'll run into has an AOE ability and being able to reduce that damage by 15% is dramatic. Other than that I agree with just about everything else you said about the talent tree.
Earthwarden + Heavy Clefthoof Armor is the real key. I'm not that hardcore (other than my EW) and I've got a nice 12k Health / 18k Armor while in bear form and it adds up to great survivability.
RE leveling builds, Feral is definitely the tree to spec for leveling. You want manaless damage to decrease your downtime and feral is it. You pop out to heal/buff and then go back to cat form grinding away. If you are a solo player you can skip the bear skills for the most part if you want since you'll primarily be in Cat form, but bear will give you great survivability for a bad pull/fight.
The best thing about the class is the amazing versatility (stealth, healing, tanking, rooting, flying, even dps casting with some Moonkin builds)....if there is a job that needs done chances are a druid can do it almost as well as a class made for that role.
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5-23-2007 @ 7:09PM
G said...
@thundercougarfalconbird - Yes! I leveled very quickly as a feral druid. Stealth to scope out your quest objectives, cat form to kill everything instantly, bear form for when it gets rough (multiple aggro, tough bosses, etc.). And once you get to Outland.. well, Outland loves feral druids. It's a blast and a half. One tip: map your shapeshift forms to mouse buttons if you have a multi-button mouse. Within a week or two it will become second nature and you'll be instantly ready for anything.
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5-23-2007 @ 7:18PM
Pingmeister said...
Ugh, every build post makes me roll an alt. STOP IT!
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5-23-2007 @ 8:46PM
JumpeiSC said...
Alright, here's the deal. This build is *decent*. However the problem is that PvP druid is so good at PvE, that it's hardly worth the minor aspects to go PvE druid. You want Brutal Impact. I personally tank Karazhan without any problems sans Feral Instinct, even if DPS goes ape from the start. Then again, I'm geared. When I was gearing up as feral (instances and bgs/arenas), I either took Thick Hide or Feral Instinct. Never both.
Oh, and if you can't figure a way to spare a single point for Nature's Grasp in a PvP build (I know this is a PvE build posted), start practicing your DELETE typing skills.
Predatory strikes is just a talent point dump. They don't want to give us something useful, and I'd kill to have some sort of utility there. Personally, at higher end arena play (I'm around 1800s, working my way up), I find that I don't have enough time to heal, except in 5v5. I don't grab Nurturing Instinct, in favor of the better feral talents. You can look up my build and gear if you're interested, Polarity on Gorgonnash. I am having comp problems, and haven't logged in since 2.1.0 hit. I'm picking up my arena head, and revamping my socket choices. Offense FTW! Down with Solid Stars!
That's my rant on druid talents. Gave ya'll the short version.
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5-23-2007 @ 9:13PM
Byron said...
I recently posted a question about an almost identical build to the WoW Druid forums, and got a lot of good feedback. Here it is again:
http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.html?topicId=102938460&postId=1041714779&sid=1
Highlights:
"You MUST have Omen of Clarity. It's the best single point you can spend in any tree. Well, along with Mangle."
Paraphrasing: The vast majority of instances are indoors where Nature's Grasp doesn't work. But it's useful in PvP, most of which is outdoor, and only costs 1 talent point.
Regarding Feral Aggression, and paraphrasing: Warriors' Demo shout is more powerful than, and overides, Druid's Demo Roar, so for a tanking Druid, unless you're raiding without a warrior, skip it. In 5-mans you're more likely to be the MT without a warrior, so this skill would be useful there, but 5 talent points to buff your 5-man utility isn't worth it, esp when there are better places for those points. Finally, the buff to Ferocious Bite is nice for PvP, but Rip is now preferred by most Druids to FB, so again the 5-pts for that talent is not worth the opportunity cost.
"When you get to the point that your mitigation hinders your rage generation, you'll want it [3/3 Intensity] for added rage."
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5-23-2007 @ 9:32PM
Byron Ellacott said...
I'd just like to second that Predatory Instinct's primary purpose is that 15% AoE resist chance. It's useful for both cat and bear -- AoE includes those AoE debuffs mobs like to throw around in KZ, for instance.
My own build skips Thick Hide for Swiftshifting, and drops 2pts from Intensity for 2pts in Brutal Impact. It's a cat solo/raid build, with plenty of offtank ability. Without Thick Hide, my quest/crafted greens and blues put me at 20k ac, 12k hp, uncrittable (405 def, 28 resilience). That's more than enough to OT in KZ if needed.
Also, don't underestimate Brutal Impact if tanking Heroics -- a lot of trash mobs that are not CCable are stunnable, such as the guards in Setthek. The extra couple of seconds can really help there.
In cat I ride around 2.2k AP unbuffed, 28% crit. Note that a Feral build has a +6% crit talent as well as LotP, so Armory crit% will be 11% below a cat or bear's final crit value.
(My talent distribution is 0/46/15 in the end. I spent a very long time as 0/46/14+1 unable to decide between Nature's Grasp for PvP and Intensity for a better Enrage. Lack of rage for tanking and lack of interest in Arenas settled it.)
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5-23-2007 @ 9:42PM
Alex said...
I'm at 1/46/14. I get natures grasp because although there is debate among many druids about it, I dig it and it usually comes in handy for a quick cyclone/heal. All I do is PVP, and I mean thats ALL I do. I usually start off with:
pounce
mangle
rake
mangle (they should have just broken out of the pounce, so...)
maim
then shapechift, cyclone, heal, cyclone again for fun, cat form, run, stealth, repeat. This usually works for me and I throw on natures grasp somewhere in the mix. Just a thought and not insulting the build shop, but improved shred is literally worthless, as Mangle does much more with savage fury (I was specced with both and mangle won). I would suggest it for leveling unless you group a lot, go balance, or have a healing set (landed me many spots in ZF). Lastly, I've found that ravage, even with a crit, is still less damage than a pounce and two mangles, even if they dont crit, and is the way to go more often than not).
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5-24-2007 @ 2:53AM
bwest0526 said...
Great, I was looking forward to this buildshop! Thanks for answering my questions and I was actually really suprised to see that the build you have here is not that far off of what I submitted:
http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=MZxhGccrMezioVxszs
I just went a little deeper in the Resto tree and left out some of the feral side. I guess the way I saw it, I would need to do a little more healing on myself while Soloing to minimize down time and sae some manna from it. Also thank you for clearifying my question as well, I look forward to reading these builds so when I finally do get a chance to play I won't be too much of a n00b at what I am doing! Just so much thinking involved!
I really havn't decided if I would like to make a Feral Druid or a Demo Loc. We'll see...Thanks again Eliah for a great article and keep up the great work!
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5-24-2007 @ 4:48AM
bwest0526 said...
Well, after looking at a few things, make that an Affliction Loc instead of a Demo Loc. Love the life taps!
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5-24-2007 @ 4:51AM
Narugh said...
Just a notice about #16 comments. Most what he says goes against what most other druids think, mainly I don't think he is using shred correctly. Rake is also more or less worthless sadly.
Both in pvp and pve you want to shred as much as possible but with the mangle debuff up (increases the damage). So solo a classic attack pattern would be pounce, mangle, shred (another shred if ooc procs), maim, shred.
In raiding pve it is mangle, shred until mangle debuff is down and repeat. If another druid puts up mangle then you only shred. At 4 combo points your rip.
So improved shred is vital, never miss that one. Also, feral is by far the fastest leveling spec as a druid.
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5-24-2007 @ 5:23AM
Kalandrah said...
Personally I'd like to point out that it's very much worth it to drop 1 point in the Feral tree and take the Nature's Grasp talent in the balance tree. It's been a lifesaver several times. ;-)
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