If threat is all that's holding them back patch 2.1 is going to be interesting... the subtlety talent, which is in the third tier of the resto tree, now applies to all spells, not just healing spells. That's a 20% threat reduction.

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Grats oomkins...

I've never really respected moonkin at all, especially in PVP, where upon killing them I have a special macro to /point /laugh and /gloat. If you look at the top PVP arena teams, NONE of them have a druid with significant points in Balance. http://www.geekboys.org/arena/index/5/all/druid/all/all/
(btw, that's a pretty nifty site, not sure if WoWinsider has linked to it before, but it shows all the arena rankings broken down by class, talents, ect.)

Moonkin are a joke among my friends and I, mostly because of one infamously ridiculous moonkin player in guild... He was pretty useless all around, (despite being a good player and well geared) and we strongly suggested he spec Resto. When he finally went resto for our raid, he made the biggest fuss about it and complained the entire time, even though he was infintely more useful and beneficial as Resto... Now he's in a different guild and still full Balance, we don't miss him.


The crit buff they bring really isn't worth the trade off for another dps class which would bring more to the raid... Mages, Shadowpriests, Warlocks and hell, even Hunters have more beneficial and flexible roles in raids.


One of the top raiding guilds on our server has even gone so far as to initiate a warning for prospective druids applying to the guild: "Don't even think about oomkin, bird = gkick"


Oh well, I guess if they're doing decent DPS, mabye I can be convinced to have my opinion towards them changed.

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I laughed at moonkin until in an arena, my buddy (the pally in my 2v2 team) was cycloned, and then I (a warrior with a good 11k-ish health) got nuked to hell. I think he hit me with a Starfire crit for 4k, which stunned, and then he hit me with a pair of Wrath crits for 2-2.5k each. With aid from his Shammy partner, they had taken me out before the cyclone was over. I look back at that fight and realized that even if I was able to get up to him, he's still got more armor than his shammy buddy with in mail with a shield. That's fierce damage mitigation for a "squishie" class.

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Why can't people look at Retribution Paladins in this light?

Statements like these sound an awful lot like Ret pally defenses I hear on the forums.
"finding a niche of gear, talents, and class choice and exploiting it to the fullest"
"While their class is known for the other two specs"
"tanks have been getting all the press"
"While the spec is really meant for PvP"
"if need be, they're just a gear change...away from becoming respectable offhealers, if not main healers"
"that can hold things down until the tank intercepts"
"they can still take a few hits"

I wish more people would have a positive outlook on off-specs like this article.

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Problem with Moonkin is that so many of them are terrible players who just want to prove a point, so they stack as much cloth damage gear as possible and go OOM every pull just to top the damage meters. So of course they pull aggro, get 1 shotted in heroics because 400% armor bonus means nothing when you're wearing tailored cloth with little to no stamina, and then whine because they have no aggro-reducing talents. I'd rather have any other class in a 5-man group - even a ret pally - than a typical Moonkin.

The Moonkin aura adds quite a bit less damage than most people think. They should add a secondary effect similar to Imp LotP which regenerates mana on an offensive spell crit. This would make them a lot more desirable in a raid just like shadow priests are now. Plus, making it actually helpful to the raid might draw a better caliber of players to the spec and help displace the stereotype of Moonkin obssessed only with the damage meters.

Still, even that might not be enough. In a 25 man raid you can only bring so many druids, and even with an improved party buff, feral and resto will still be much more desirable as they fill the indispensible roles of (off-)tank and healer. I don't know, it's a tough problem to solve, and balance has always been a good example of Blizzard quite unsure of what they're doing with class design.

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@Tibbsy - Putting out those numbers most likely he was decked out in tailored cloth items, which have very little armor and stamina. He very likely had much less armor and health than the elemental shaman. Anyway, their team was very specifically designed to defeat your warrior/paladin combo, but they would be absolutely destroyed by, say, rogue/feral druid (or another rogue).

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This is what I've been saying for a long time now. As a boomkin I out DPS mages and priest all the time. But I do have to slow down sometimes so I don't overtake aggro from the tank, because of the longer casting times of balance spells if you're being hit it takes forever to cast starfire and you can get plenty of damage that way. I'm working on getting a combination of gear, gems, potions, food, enchants and buffs to get my bonus spell damage up to ~1000, but I have a little ways to go as I max at around 750 right now, but it is possible.

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BTW, thats in all leather gear, no cloth

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They have more threat reducing abilities than shaman; i.e. they can switch into cat form and cower. It's not as neat & efficient as SoulShatter or Feign Death, but it doesn't qualify as non-existent either.

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@8 What crap mages are you teaming with?

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@11
I was moonkin spec for about a week and now im Feral again. Not that I didn't like moonkin, it was awesome actually. I was getting crits all the time, pumping out huge DPS with the caster leather I had made sure to collect 60-70 incase I ever change my mind about specs. The thing is, I found that I can out DPS mages (and some locks) in a short period of time. Like in an arena match. When I go oom, the best I can do is melee a mob for some mana back. Moonkins arent inferior at all anymore, since our spells have relatively short cast times, we can nuke fairly well. But people still have the misconception that mookins=noob spec which is not the case at all anymore.

Sorry for a double post

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@10
I hate it when people say this. It isn't mana efficient at all, nor is it even an option. Shifting to cat form (with natural shapeshifter) is around 400 mana. waiting 2 seconds for your energy tick, then casting cower, not to mention your probably dead if you pulled aggro already. I'm not yelling at your or anything, just clarifying that its not a viable threat reducing spell to use in any situation.

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Believe what you want Pritchard, but it's true, it's not uncommon for me to crit 3200 to 3300 with starfire, I'm always at the top of the dps charts.

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By all means go get honored with Sporregar and get your muck covered cloak. Just that teeny bit of thread reduction can make all the diff.

As for topping dps charts.. that depends on who I'm with. In a really good 5 man I'm smack in the middle, which is where I should be.

My job is to add dps, watch out for squishy agro and OT for them when necessary (aka fling my big fat iron-feathered self on the mob instead of my cloth covered buddy the priest), keep my innervate for the healer, be ready to drop form and OH when needed, go cat and scout ahead for respawns, do emergency CC (cyclone), be a hard to kill AOE agro-kin (barkskin + hurricane the dragonhawks in Arcatraz, for instance, while the tank and dps kill the handler), be ready to battle rez basically anyone, and, if things go really REALLY south, shift to bear and take one for the team.

You're probably right, though.. Doomkin = gkick, cause we're useless. Who wants anyone who only does those things in your group?

And clothkins? Don't get me started. Leather iz 4 droods, mkay?

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My Moonkin can also get 3200-3300 Starfire crits with only minimal buffs, in all leather gear.

The thing that's cool about Balance spec isn't just the damage though. Raids and even 5-mans are about a lot more than damage. What I love is that if the group needs DPS, I can do it well, but if the group needs healing, I can be a quite competent main healer without even changing most of my gear.

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@16

That's why mages and warlocks think moonkins suck. Why should you be able to DPS like us, then turn around and heal as well. Blizzard needs to tone down moonkin damage, or up the aggro output.

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LOL...that's fine Kiss. Lots of classes in blues can reach those numbers. It's nothing special. I do and I'm in mostly 60s purples still. I can only imagine the numbers to go up when I get all my 70 gear.

I can't even remember the last time I even saw a moonkin in battlegrounds. I think when I did last I thought, why isn't he feral? Cheers to your 3000 starfires. Enjoy my 5000 pyros pretty soon. : )

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Thank you for posting this! Balance druids often seem overlooked even in comparison to other offspecs, but I'm really hoping that the way other offspecs have taken off is a sign of things to come.

Make no mistake about it, actually *leveling* as a balance druid pre-moonkin (31-point talent) is pretty tough; you're still better off leveling as feral and respeccing. Even a brand-new moonkin at 40 is going to have some survivability issues with multiple adds. The great PvE weakness of the spec is that you get dire bear armor without the bear's +25% stamina and Frenzied Regeneration, so popping out in the middle of a fight in order to heal has to be timed carefully. That being said, there's almost no excuse for a death in the field once you get the 41-point Force of Nature (this is the trio of angry trees for those of you unfamiliar with druid talents). I can only assume that it gets even better once you finally get Lifebloom and Cyclone and have more tricks to control how a fight goes. This is a balance druid, Tradix, playing the spec just brilliantly: http://files.filefront.com/7241790

Moonkin overall do have some growing pains to get through. Balance suffers from pretty terrible itemization pre-60, and by terrible I mean almost nonexistent. My 56 balance druid (Horde) has just about every piece of +spell dmg leather you can get, and that amounts to Ironfeather shoulders, Ironfeather chest, Bloodfire talons, and.......well, that's really about it before you hit Outland. Fortunately you can supplement with rings and the Deep Woodlands cloak you get as a Hinterlands quest reward (if you're Horde). I have one cloth piece but prefer PvE, and would rather not trade survivability for more damage. Running around with 4.7K armor in moonkin (5.5K with a pally's Devotion aura) means that that pissed-off mob is going to have to whack you for a while. Pre-60 Moonkin unloading epic nukes are typically outfitted in cloth, but my Starfire will crit for about 1315, Wrath for 700-800, and Moonfire for 500. With the moonkin aura stacked on my regular crit chance, it's not unusual to crit 2 or 3 times in a fight and stun on a Starfire at least once. Once you do go oom (four or five fights while soloing, in my experience), either innervate or go kitty for a while (moonkin are not played well if the player forgets that they *are*, in fact, a druid). Very little downtime.

And - let's face it - moonkin are just the hell of a lot of fun. Great animations (well, those that exist; unfortunately moonkin will go still while looting or with most emotes), funny sounds when they get hit, and I still get a kick out of how determined they look with a serious weapon equipped. The number of people who will gather around you in Org to ask questions ("Is that a new Noggenfogger potion?" "What tailoring recipe is that?") or beg you to do the dance also makes being in town a lot of fun. And the rarest spec on one of the least-played, if not least-played class (apparently shaman and druids are competing for this dubious honor), instills a great sense of comradery when you see another faction's moonkin. I've played since January and have still seen only two Alliance moonkin on my (admittedly low-pop) server.

Peoples' experiences and goals within WoW differ greatly, but I for one would find it difficult to have more fun than I'm having now as a giant chicken with a killer dance. And - are you ready for it? - moonkin tanking! "Making Your Lack of Aggro Reduction Work For You."

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I am so fed up 1337 raiders dissing "off spec" toons because they don't fit traditional (i.e. inflexible, repetitive, predicable) raid roles. Guess what, not everyone is in a raiding guild nor do they want to be. Just because a spec is not ideal for raiding, doesn't mean it useless spec, there are many of us out there that are still trying to do every day things, like level and not die a lot.

If you're a good, mature team player and can adapt to different situations, regardless of spec, I'm happy to group with you.

Besides, boomkins have the funniest dance of all the characters. :)

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