I don't go to the BGs very often but when I do I like to kill things...I don't care about winning or really how much honor i get, I just want to fight other players. I hardly ever die in the BGs...expect when I kill someone enough that they come back with like 5 people to show me what's what. Ihave never really thought about not really fighting in the BGs...I don't care about getting GM weapons or whatever.

I don't play to win; I play to have fun.

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I AFK in AV because its easy, free honor. I don't care if I'm taking up a spot. I'm not paying $15/mo to make the game more enjoyable for you.

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i find i get enough honor win or lose (i play horde) that i don't care either way, however the fact that afkers can rack up the honor really irks me. i don't know why blizzard doesn't impliment some sort of anti-leech strategy. all those people with 0 damage dealt or healed don't deserve 1 honor point.

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I've never understood why the horde loses at AV. I've played allaince, and we've always won. Yet Allaince goes into WSG, and AB we get trashed everytime unless we are set group. The Battle ground layout for AV has 2 bottlenecks. The valley near the Allaince GY, and the close packed building, ramp and entry way to their area. Everytime I run my rogue through AV on offense, i sit there and marvel at how easy it would be to defend it with 1/3rd the raid. While the rest stomp the allaince. Normaly (from my bg's) the Alliance has 10-15 people most on defense.

I see 2 play styles on Ally normaly:

1: they allow the horde to get grab Stonehearth (and if someone takes it back they scream about not wanting a turtle)

2: complete Defense - normaly this is with newer players who panic.

I haven't gotten my mage to AV level yet so I'm not sure what the horde is doing.. just observe they don't do much Defense overal, and their offense comes in with 4-5 people charging SH GY against the 10-15 defenders (of course they get eaten).

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Why don't these BG's kick people who are AFK? FPS games have been doing this for ages. Hell some games kick/damage you for simply staying in one place too long. (anti-camp/anti-afk).

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@4

Usually horde just tries to zerg the first bunker, kill the LTs and BAL, then rush SP GY. You can tell on horde in the first minute after the gate opens how the game will turn out. If people go to defend right away we have a chance. 95% of the time nobody bothers though. It's seriously less productive overall to turtle.

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Im sick of Afkers and now make a point in each and every AV to report them. I don't want to see anyone get banned. maybe blizzard could just ban them from Av. The point is, if you have no interest in actually playing AV, then you dont deserve the gear and you shouldn't be there. AFKERS with HWl gear are noob posers.

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Well, if you think horde are the only afk'rs your wrong, alliance has its fair share(still doesn't stop us from winning). Alliance is also notorious about reporting them though. Once I had just gotten in an AV run and wanted to go refill my coke and I recieved a phone call. I tapped the keyboard twice to make sure I wouldn't go AFK but was sitting at my cpu talking on the phone. Just as i was finishing my phone call I recieved a whisper from a GM asking me if I was at my keyboard. I responded and said that i was at my cpu. I don't like the idea that I could have gotten banned if that phone call had takin longer.

I do agree with the philosiphy of #2 lulzfg. I am paying to play the game and If you don't like me gaurding the cave when im on the phone, you can kiss it. Im not playing to make everyone happy, only myself and friends I play with. Its a COMPUTER game, not the marine corps.

Off subject a bit and in response to the question of "why does alliance pwn AV, but get pwn'd in WSG and AB." IMHO the alliance are better suited for PVE(pallies, fear ward, etc.) where as the horde are better suited for PVP(shamans, WotF, war stomp, etc.). AV is the only battleground that a good PVE group dominates. AB and WSG are pure PVP battlegrounds, and horde have an edge. I mostly play Alliance, but I have played my fair share of horde as well.

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That was the biggest load of crap I have seen on the forums in a while, and there have been some pretty big ones lately. This guy is using the fact the Horde doesn't want to to defense to justify doing... nothing? That's thin, very very very thin.
Scariest part is that a ton of people just lapped it up.

If he doesn't like it, why is he there? He could just **not** go to AV. Problem solved. He is there because he is a lazy &@%! that wants free epics, plain and simple.

He can dress it up however he wants, and even convince a lot of people of his oh-so noble intentions. In the end though, he's just another dime-a-dozen loot whore.

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I have been doing PvP before Honor. And lots of it.

AV from the start almost daily. And with all the changes in place.

I have the time and experience to speak on this matter.

Horde lose a whole lot. Not because of AFK'ers. The map layout is to blame.

SP graveyard is hard to take and keep. One side you have a Bridge that is horrid bottleneck and the towers shoot the piss out of those half way on it.

The other side is a mountainside right by the defenders spawn point and entrance to AV...they get up top and bombard fresh graveyard rezzers and charge down from the Mine side or the GY side to RECAP...

To take the aid station we have to either heavy zerg it...which is rough with all the NPC's in between...and towers shooting at you.

Alliance do not have that craptastic location of there version of SP...FW Flag is far from our entrance...the spawn for GY is distanced from our end. And can be defended well vs Stormpike craps location.

To take our Aid station (horde) takes two people..The towers dont blast at the second guy trying to cap the aid station.

I myself and another rogue have tried to Cap Aid station durring SP gy neutral cooldown....Soon as he ran off the guards..I tried to cap from the slope side.

STILL the bunkers rangers can shoot me! WTF

If blizzard wants to make this more balanced..>Get rid of that fricking bridge..and MOVE the av entrance for alliance so they dont have a strategic advantage over the SP GY.

Move one tower on horde where the flight master sits so its in range of our Aid station so two stealthers cant just simply Ninja it with ease.

That would help out way more.

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I'd go AFK in AV less if Horde would listen to the hundreds of people yelling at them to take the bloody high road when heading for SP. And yet every time you see a block of idiots fighting on the road. I can't count how many times that me (as a Tauren on a non-epic Kodo, a slow big target) has made it to behind the SP flag unimpeded by taking the bloody high road and then watched as the rest of the raid stays bottled up.

Personally I think people who pigheadedly fight on the low road are worse than AFKers. They're either idiots who can't follow simple concepts or are honour farmers themselves, purposefully staying in the area of most opposition and farming HKs. A couple of people on harrassment duty on D and the rest zerging SP works. Alliance are so used to us being idiots and taking the low road that they just need a few defenders on low road and we spend ages there getting nowhere.

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The best offense is a good defense, and lets face it, Dwarves are much better defenders than Orcs when it comes to war.

Stone Bunkers > wood towers

Besides, we all know that the layout of AB is in favor of the Horde(Farm + LM + BS, swing team for the win), but you don't see any alliance whinning about it like the horde whine about AV.

Horde don't need Aid Station anyway. The only graveyard Horde need to win is SP gy.

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One minute AFK in BG's. If you aren't fighting or moving, you're out. Sure it won't stop the bots, but it will help with the pure AFKers.

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I just hope one day a huge sergeant orc (or dwarf) will automatically kick the ass (with damage) of anyone in afk state for 10 seconds. and if still afk ,the player will be out of the BG.

it's not about "win", it's just not fun to have some people blocking the game.

one rude person (comment 2) say he pays every month so he doesn't care about the others' game. well, I will say noone care about yours dollars. so get out.

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I don't blame him at all. Before CrossRealm BGs, Horde won AV a lot. Just about every AV I went in was a horde win.

The problem with horde losses now have nothing to do with AFKers. It has nothing to do with the terrain. The problem is that people want to go in, kill the lieutenants, Balinda, take a few towers/graveyards, and lose. They don't want any defense. They don't want anyone to try to win. They just want a token in the least time possible.

Druid dude, you bitch about him wanting free epics; Did you really read his post? I highly doubt you did. He doesn't want free epics; he wants the horde running AV in his battlegroup to give a damn about winning in AV.

To the author, I'd ask you this; Do you think he AFKs even when there's an effort being made to win? From the tone of his post, I'd wager he doesn't. I see this in the same way he does; that's how I handle it. If there's an honest effort to win, then I'm out and about; either on D healing warriors/rogues/mages on my Shaman, or up on offense killing healers with my rogue. If the first thing I see when I zone into AV is 'kill LTs, BAL and lose', then I'm not going to waste money on repair bills from getting beat on by all the NPCs for a bunch of tards who just want to take a loss and get their token.

So, yea. I love PvP. It's a great deal of fun. WSG and AB are a ton of fun when I'm running them, whether it's a PuG or with a bunch of guildies. AV is nothing but pure, unadulterated crap unless you can get 40 people from your server into a raid and get most/all of them into AV that way.

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(Horde)well the way I see it: I join AV, and there are people telling/yelling tactics as the most of us know ( Fast SH-Sp-Aid Station) But then there are people doing it on purpose and won't listen...

Then theres the idea of putting about 10 people in defense, this is good to slow the Alliance in our matter, but for sure, alliance breaks through.

The horde Rushes for Stonehearth. BOEM . And then people ask to do Balinda, which ofcourse give a good 40-50 honor with the guards so why not + The tower... But this makes us lose about 5-10 min where the alliance just keeps pushing. As said in the last posts: Horde gear is pvp and alliance pve. When you walk in Av, you see almost all alliance with "tier" and horde with crap gear.

And the BG chat is even worse. If it's not spam about someone yelling about the other not having a girlfriend, it's about yelling to get Sp Sp Sp... Eventhough we got that, and got directly to vandarr, We get about 40-50 honor for that. And it's possible in a good run to get 300 in about 20 min.

So Horde loses for various reasons:
-No Co-operation.
-Shit talk in BG channel
-..

Now about the Afker's.

If they Afk, so leave it, it's not your problem, if you lose too bad, just hope next time no afker comes in. As for myself, ofcourse I have afk's some times, but that's just because you can't play all day.
They don't mess with your business so don't you mess with theirs. Afk'ing is easy honor and in the meantime you can do something else. The main reason that I do it sometimes is because of the low honor you get for playing ... If I play for 6 hours I have maybe 3-4k honor.. Which makes it unbarable and I just afk, because it's so frcking boring.
I don't demand you to afk, just to be active when needed. The only time that I really think that afk'ing is lame, is at BG weekends. You get double honor for the things you do, so if you win, that's double price, and if you lose that just bad luck but atleast you get something.

In the bg weekend ( Av) this weekend it was horrible, many many afkers... I mean could get like 9-10K honor just for that, for playing 5-6 hours.

Also regarding the terrain, alliance has a certain advantage in Av, they can skip a few elites in our base, don't have much NPC problem. Whilst we horde we need to get to Sp which is a pain in the ass, with allia on the top where you can't see them... Frostbolt spams from places you can't see... The bridge so far, I don't really see as an advantage. They have a bridge, we have a narrow entrance. We also have the kinda castle you have to enter to get to the towers & Drekthar. But Alliance still has SP advantage which helps them alot. It gives them enough time to break through our defenses and win by a bit.

The last few days also remarkably is the Lag... you can't do anything or move. And the weird thing is that we horde have AS and then all of a sudden lag comes...BOEM... We lost AS, Alliance is at Drek'thar, it's like WTF ?.

Ohwell :) Just hopes all of these problems are solves with TBC

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Paul Sherrard obviously didnt read what Etherboo said at all. If you would have read you would have noticed he said he did fight and try to win, but after many times of losing because no one else will fight he too has given up.

The problem isnt people its game design, currently you get 200 for the npc and caps, if you actually fight youll get what 20 points in hks? and what do you get if you win? 14 more points? woopiee! Man is that incentive to win.

Tokens are worthless at this point, the token to honor ratio is so bad that if you play just one bg for any one HWL item your going to have tokens wasting away in the mail.

There is no reason to win, and no reason to fight. If you have such a problem with av go do wsg/ab, there is plenty of people fighting there, that is of course when your not getting steamrolled by a premade.

P.S. I dont know what fairy tale your living in that horde can win a AV in 8mns in, you would have to exploit van to even come close to that time, in which case [b]is exploiting van any different from exploiting honor by sitting in a cave?[/b]

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@Paul;

I'd beg to differ on the value of PvP rewards in outlands. If you're sitting in anything less than T2, then PvP gear is far better than anything you'll have. When it comes to weapons, they're far and away better than anything you'll find before the mid 60s.

Now, can you find sidegrade equipment for a few slots? Sure, with ease. However, what you're losing out on is what tips the scales in favor of set equipment; the bonuses that you get from wearing the sets. Those stack up enough difference to make wearing set gear preferable over gear of equivalent ilevel, or gear level, whichever you know it as, even though it may have superior stats.

There is a point where you'll find piecemeal gear to be superior. However, I don't see anyone getting to that point in a couple weeks, unless they're out and out racing to 70.

Personally, I don't plan on doing that. I'd imagine the majority of people don't either. For people like us, it's well worth the frustration of dealing with BGs.

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All Horde has to do send 5-10 on D, bypass *everything* and zerg AS. I have been in two groups in the last 3 weeks that did ONLY that and capped in under 8 minutes. The bonus honor for winning along with the 3 tokens in 8 minutes makes this an extremely good honor/hour formula if people would actually EMPLOY the strategy.

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