I always try to give patience to the new acclimated end game player when running strat/scholo and the like. I find that reminding (or informing) players of tough pulls and/or boss tactical decisions keeps everyone paying attention, and ready for what's to come.

There are two main problems, as I see it, about trying to teach newer 60's these things.

First, since so many players leave a PuG randomly because their "guild" needs them, many PuGs get used to adding extra players in mid-run. Which of course means a lot of sitting around doing nothing. Since these players are so used to this waiting around, they come to expect it. After all, when someone is going to inevitably leave, why take the time to inform them on the right way to run an instance?

This kind of thinking enrages me. Perhaps some end gamers are kids home for the summer with no responsibilities, but most of us have jobs and lives, and can't afford to lose 2 healers in a routine Scholo run. Teaching people how to do something right the first time will save (if not for you, for some other PuG they join) time and sanity.

The second problem is players pretend they know more than they actually do. This phenomenon might be limited to my experience, but I can't tell you how many times I have run an instance with a group, asked them all if they have run it before, had a unanimous yes, and then one person proceeded to do something stupid to wipe the group. Like attack the neutral students in Scholo, or not know what the Eye of Naxx is in Stratholme.

Perhaps they want to feel included. Perhaps they think someone will drop them if they come clean, who knows?

Long post, sorry, but I think teaching people the ins and outs of instances should be manditory for all players. Unfortunately, a lot of newer 60's aren't that interested in learning.

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So far I'm 59 3/4 with my main char. That means I haven't gotten to see any of the end-game instances. Whenever I try to get taken along, my guild says "get to be 60 first". I just have the feeling that they'll say "get some decent gear first" before letting me join. Question is: how are new 60's supposed to get good gear if they are never taken along on instance runs, because the well-equipped 60's are better suited for it?

And thats even apart from all the "you don't know a thing about this instance, learn it first" issue. For me it's pretty ugly because they seem ready to use me once I can be of use, but unwilling to help me get better in the slightest ways.

Fortunately I see a decent number of other players having the same problems with their guildmates. That means I'm not just in a bad guild but suffering from a general problem.

Unfortunately I don't have a solution to this situation. The only thing I can and *will* do is helping my friends out when they are once again left to level alone for themselves without help even for the elite quests.

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I have recently ordered the new strategy guyde from Brady called the Dungeon Companion for this very reeason. I have had a couple of characters 50-54 but nerver made it past Maraudon. In anticipation of taking my currentl lvl 50 character to end game, I plan on studying up on all the end game content so I am at least a little prepared for the experience.

Maybe there should be a way of organizing "education runs" to some of the instances. Guild could play a big hand in this, but there should be other means for the guild chanllenged as well.

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Yeah, basically it boils down to the same lack of courtesy most WoW players show each other. The griefing, the mean PuG leaders, all that. It's led me to conclude that the *majority* of WoWers are basically either tweeners with an attitude problem or kids who are too young for the EULA to apply to them.

Yes, there are people who CAN'T and WON'T spend 20 hours a week playing endgame to avoid being called a Nub. Ultimately, I think this is why people flock so fervently to new servers to start "from scratch"--- to avoid all the unfriendliness and just be equal and cooperative for a while.

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I was lucky. I play an undead mage in Bronzebeard (PvE server) and I was able get some experience with the end game instances as early as lvl 55. Before I got into a pretty MC raiding guild I did absolutely all my dungeons in PUGS. As early as lvl 55 I was able to experience my first 10 man raid when I was invited to a PUG to 10 man dead stratholme (back when we still could). I experienced 15 manning UBRS for the first time at lvl 56. this got me an early start into experiencing these dungeons. When I hit 60 I had a lot of experience under my belt. I guess the people in my server are more patient when it comes to these things.

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Experienced players who form pugs should always ask "Have you done this before?".

IF they dont,,and they wipe...its the leaders fault. Period.

DOnt worry there are "vet" players like myself who love those who want to learn vs those who think they know it all.

Ive ran enough scholo and UD strat to be 10k from AD exalted....(thats alot of fricking runs)..

I know its my responsabillity to show others and check on the experience of my team.

What I hate is some pecker head who joins my Group which is 4 guildies vs 1 pickup...Mr.PIckup tries to advise us and tell us how to pull....omfg that drives me nuts. Im wearing tier .5 that should scream ive done this crap before noob. argh

anywho just feedin back positive info for yah: There are people who do exactly what you wish for pugs. My guilds one of them.

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@Fabian: Dude, you need a new guild. Seriously. It's not that you aren't high enough level (55 is a great place to start) or that your equipment isn't good enough (*Strat/*Scholo/*BRD are where you get your first dungeon sets.) you need to find a guild with goals that are more in-line with your own. Guilds are formed for various reasons and with varying purposes. Being in the wrong one just hurts everyone. If the guild your in is only about end-game raids, they’re not going to help you out. Join a guild whose focus is helping one another get ready for endgame stuff. I’m in the “Shadow Brotherhood” guild on Dunemaul and our purpose is to help each other out. We’re not large enough to do daily *MC raids. We work with each of our guild mates to find out where they are and what they want to accomplish next. If someone wanted to join our guild to just hang out and isn’t worried about getting to 60, they’re in the wrong guild, if they want to join and just do raids; they’re in the wrong guild. There are guilds for those types of players and being in the right kind of guild helps everyone. I highly recommend everyone read this thread ** on the Warcraft forums. Understanding who you are as a player and what you want to accomplish will make this game much more fun.
--Frankintroll

*Stratholme, *Scholomance, *Blackrock Depths, *MC http://www.worldofwarcraft.com/info/basics/worlddungeons.html
**Understanding Guilds
http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.aspx?fn=wow-guild-relations&t=15941&p=1&tmp=1#post15941

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